2022-05-05 19:28:33 ¶ ● ⬀ ⬈

beroebluejeans:

> abigail-pent:

> > madtomedgar:

> > > abigail-pent:

> > > > duchessofrhodes:

> > > > > abigail-pent:

> > > > > > nav-ix:

> > > > > > > I don’t know how I feel about it and I don’t know what it means but I think Cytherea was one hundred percent sincere when she held and comforted Gideon during the avulsion trial. I don’t think she was pretending at all

> > > > > > oh I completely agree!! and it brings up such particularly Cytherea feelings because the invitation to collaborate to get the 8th key was absolutely a murder attempt. if Harrow (or Pal) had tried to siphon and wasn’t strong enough, or if their cav wasn’t strong enough, she would have knocked out another potential Lyctor and made it look like a casualty of the process. but she genuinely does like Gideon, I think, and doesn’t want her to die! so it’s part murder attempt for Harrow and part test of Gideon’s strength. but that doesn’t mean she doesn’t regret it!

> > > > > okay, so, i agree re: cytherea being sincere, and, i think there’s something in that scene we don’t understand yet! it’s going to be the focus of my reread tbh. here are some thoughts without conclusions yet:

> > > > > - why does cytherea want the avulsion key so bad? who’s study was that again? she does ask palamedes first, so it can’t have been achieved only by gideon/purely to test gideon’s power. also there are (as we see) way easier ways she kills someone she wants dead, so i don’t think we’re just Here For Murder or to Test Gideon Out.
> > > > > - she could have done it herself. she not only could literally do it as-is, but she can make bone matter as small as she describes that situation needing (see: the fifth’s wounds). so she doesn’t need someone else to get that key, but she needs someone else to go through that trial… why?
> > > > > - and the two she picks are palamedes and harrow. why is that? what sets them apart - and what makes her prefer palamedes? his likelihood to agree with her because of his obvious crush on ‘dulcinea’? and he declines. so she goes to griddlehark. but why palamedes first?

> > > > I think Palamedes first for the same reasons as she killed Abigail. He knows a lot and he’s great at finding things out. Same with Harrow. Both are incredibly observant that way. And she is definitely trying to kill them both, and it may be easier to avoid a whole Agatha Christie style situation by arranging it to effectively be an accident, death occurring in the course of trying to ascend.

> > > > The avulsion trial is the 8th house trial. I don’t think she particularly wanted that key, so much as she wanted to use the trial to achieve some murder. Like you say, she doesn’t need to get into that lab. This whole scene, like most of her scenes, is a set piece where she performs for others.

> > > I also kind of wonder if it has anything to do with testing the new crop to see if they are as willing to kill their cavs for their own advancement as a way of still grappling with the fact that she did, when it came to it, possibly trying to kill the ones who she is most horrified about becoming lyctors first (Abigail and Magnus’s bond, the kids being, well, kids, something about Pal being Too Good and then her projection of Loveday onto Gideon, because I do think she sees lyctorhood as worse than death), and the potential to rip the blinders off of the participants about what this Really Requires and what that says about jod. Because this trial kind of… Is lyctorhood. The necromancer uses their cav’s life force for power, killing them or permanently damaging them in the process. You want this so bad, kids? You want to be good and do what jod wants? Well this is what he will make you do. Still feel good about it?

> > > I agree her main motivation is to cause chaos, kill the candidates, and get rid of people who can stop her. But as a cyth apologist I think there’s hidden depths.

> > ALL OF THIS, YES

> These points are so good!

> Does Cytherea know or suspect Gideon is John’s kid before the avulsion trial? Is this trial a way for her to test that hypothesis?

whoa, great point! I think Cytherea knew from the moment she saw Gideon’s eyes (this is more or less confirmed in HtN when Mercymorn says as much) and I think it makes a lot of sense that she would want to see what Gideon could withstand? And I think it’s complicated in such interesting ways by the idea that she sees Loveday in Gideon, which I think she does.

Still kinda wondering why she asked Pal first, but I like the idea that she wanted to know whether this crop of potential lyctors would be as willing to sacrifice their cav, even in smaller ways.