2023-03-08 6:35:40 ¶ ● ⬀ ⬈

ungemmed:

> morepopcornplease:

> > crazylocaldreamer:

> > > morepopcornplease:

> > > > testudoaubrei-blog:

> > > > > So being in both the she Ra and tLT fandoms I definitely see a lot of posts about religious trauma. Which, fair. But Tasmin Muir is a practicing Catholic and Nate Stevenson is an atheist who was raised Calvinist. And in addition to tLT being arguably more in the tradition of Very Gay, very subversive Catholic art rather than a more straightforward account of trauma written by someone now ‘on the outside’ there is also the theological specificity to think about.

> > > > > She Ra isn’t just about the psychological harms of Christianity or Evangelicalism but -Calvinism specifically-. This is true of a lot of Nate’s work. The rejection of total depravity in Catra’s redemption of herself, of a ‘good’ elect and ‘bad’ damned in the shows consistent ambiguities/humanization of everyone, and the shows rejection of (pre)destiny in Adora and Catra’s arcs are extremely anti Calvinist. And of course Horde Prime claims to be a Calvinist God (but he isn’t, this acting as a proxy for the -people- who claim their abuses and oppressions are the will of God - there is no actual deity on Nate’s universe, only people).

> > > > > But I have no idea what is going on, religiously, in the Locked Tomb. However I suspect that while Nate, raised Calvinist, is interested in the terror of damnation, Tasmin Muir might be exploring much more ambivalent Catholic ideas of Purgation and of course, the Harrowing of Hell. TBH while I adore Nate’s cartoon theological critique I am hoping Muir gives us some Man Who Was Thursday theological what the fuckery.

> > > > > Note: if you want to read more about Catra and Calvinism here is one of the most batshit posts I have written on this website. (Note this was written before Nate transitioned to Nate so it uses his former name and both genders of pronouns).

> > > > > RitterTeufelTod

> > > > Catholic TLT and SPOP fan here!

> > > > Honestly, I’m tagging @monstrousgourmandizingcats​ right out the gate because I can trust em to have more coherent thoughts on this than me.

> > > > But it’s pretty obvious to fellow Catholic lovers of TLT that this is meant to be a condemnation from within, most especially in light of (SPOILERS for NTN) Harrow’s choice, once she has learned the whole, horrible truth about Jod, says something to the effect of I’m going to keep searching for a divine image I can believe in. (sorry, idk the exact line, my book is at my apt—MGC help?)

> > > > The first moment I was struck by the visceral condemnation Muir was trying to make—as in, realized Muir isn’t just using Catholic aesthetic for aesthetic’s sake—was the pool scene in GTN where (SPOILERS for GTN) Harrow reveals the deaths of 200 children. I don’t think I’m the only Catholic who drew immediate and direct comparison between the child abuse scandals (the sex abuses, the residential schools, take your pick) of the Church and the way Pellemea and Priamhark (and to some extent within that same scene, Harrow herself) excused their atrocities with coverups and For The Sake Of The Ninth’s Future. It absolutely flattened me.

> > > > There’s tons of other choices that show how Muir is angling for critiquing Catholicism from within, not from without: the entirety of GTN is spent learning about our Catholic-Church-stand-in from Gideon’s POV, hating and cursing and recounting her real and painful and agonizing trauma, directly at the hands of The Ninth, only for her to choose to sacrifice herself for that same Ninth House at the very end anyways. My gay Catholic ass is bein FED.

> > > > In short, Muir is definitely intending to critique Catholics—people, practice, and oft-damaging wake—from inside Catholicism; something that I think folks are unfamiliar with. Not just because the deeply religious stories they’re most likely familiar with are either Narnia or LOTR, but because the alternative is almost always SPOP-adjacent, aka narratives from the perspective of someone who has rejected and left that faith.

> > > I think this analysis is compelling and very well done, but I’m not totally sure I can read GtN, NtN, and particularly Nona the Ninth as a critique from within and not a full on condemnation/rejection of Catholicism. Specifically with regards to plots like:

> > > - The religious leader of the Ninth falls in gay love with the antichrist metaphor/apocalypse-causing thing in the box
> > > - God was not only once a man, he is also just A Dude who Has Threesomes Sometimes. (This realization spurs the religious leader of the Ninth to have a faith crisis.)
> > > - An entire book (Nona) dedicated to the horrors of the Space Crusades
> > > - A man wanted to save the world so badly, but instead he destroyed it, and in doing so he became God.

> > > I would love to have some more coherent thoughts about this later this week when I have more brain space but. Hmm. I am thinking.

> > > (Also, Muir is very private about her personal life, so a bit wary of the claim that she is a ‘practicing Catholic?’ Not sure she’s every spoken about her personal religious life publicly in that way?)

> > Sorry this response is late! Holidays beget celebration.

> > So for the last paragraph, I’ll just post Muir’s answer from a May ‘22 interview:

> > [parts are bolded by me for quick-read capabilities]

> > > Tamsyn: It’s undeniable that the Locked Tomb books are going to include my personal relationship to faith: ‘being a gay Catholic’ is like the book’s logline. That said, the God of the Locked Tomb IS a man; he IS the Father and the Teacher; it’s an inherently masc role played by someone who has an uneasy relationship himself to playing a Biblical patriarch. John falls back on hierarchies and roles because they’re familiar even when he’s struggling not to. Even he identifies himself as the God who became man and the man who became God. But the divine in the Locked Tomb is essentially feminine on multiple axes – I think Nona will illuminate that a little bit more.

> > Oh and as @testudoaubrei-blog said, it’s mentioned in the audio (though not in the writeup) of this interview at 22:40:

> > > “You know, I’m a practicing Catholic, I haven’t met any Johns myself, which is great, but it is something that does resonate through religious communities.”

> > But getting direct authorial intent is much less fun when it comes to literary analysis, and because I delighted entirely too much in writing this earlier before I found those interviews again, some of my own thoughts:

> > As a tentpole thought: there are lots of Christ allegories in TLT to go around, and the fun of that is you get to play with different aspects of that on a character. Gideon’s sacrifice is a Christ allegory. Harrow descending into Hell is a Christ allegory. Nona’s godlike vast essence trapped in a single body is a Christ allegory. Alecto is not just an AntiChrist (antiJod? more on that later) figure, she’s also a Christ allegory in the tomb, and the greek mythical Fury to boot. They all exist in the same verse. And from an author who blends all sorts of genres, I don’t expect there to be one and only 1:1 Aslan-is-Christ / Jod-is-God levels of allegory.

> > To the BulletPointMobile!!

> > - When Alecto is first introduced to us through Harrow’s eyes, she is The Body, and her most obvious allegory is the wounded body of Christ. and there’s plenty of religious semi-erotic meditations on the wounded body of Christ. really, Catholicism is full of this stuff, just look at the lovely homoerotic St Sebastian art!!
> > - The first clue we have about what type of god Jod is this: he has locked away someone in a tomb, with a rock rolled over the entrance, never to rise: a pretty pointed and noticeable departure from Christian theology. So if Jod—known self-delusionist and pathological liar— deliberately put that Christ allegory in there, citing their return as an explicit threat to Jod’s own power… isn’t it a bit more likely that Jod has been propped up as a false god for this narrative? I grant you, the difference seems slight when comparing to The Authority of HDM, which has the ending I think many folks expect out of TLT. But Pullman never propped up his godkillers with Christ-like allegorical significance the way Muir has; indeed, that would have spoiled his point.
> > - Jod is also an orgy-loving Borgia Pope Alexander VI allegory.
> > - I admit when i read NTN, i didn’t think space crusades so much as i thought about Catholic missionaries’ active collaboration within colonialism (for one, the Seljuks and Mameluks were able to repel the Crusaders, but Blood of Eden is decidedly playing a game of guerrilla warfare with the overwhelming force of Jod’s army). Catholics have a complex and frequently remorseful relationship with our own history, same as other folks.
> > - more Jod allegories, yeah!! he’s the Tower of Babel, he’s the antipope who excommunicated the other antipopes, he’s Martin Luther, he’s Marcel Lefebrve!!

> > Anyways, that’s a big enough wall of text for now; genuinely hoping it doesn’t come across as aggressive, only excited about what Muir is doing with TLT.

> TLT is also obsessed with the question of whether to extend grace in the face of the unforgivable; Gideon and Harrow’s arc in GtN, Paul telling Ianthe that Naberius still has a chance, Jod’s pursuit of vengeance on the billionaires’ descendants, etc. This is incredibly Catholic vibes to me in ways I don’t know how to explain to folks who have never had an insider’s perspective on the faith.

> Similarly, Harrow setting out on her “journey to find God” at the end of Nona is explicitly *not* a rejection of the faith she was raised in – “Maybe, at the end of that road, I will find God in you, Teacher.” To me, that scene – that whole chapter – reads as specifically insider theological questioning from someone who’s been given reasons to lose her faith and has chosen to engage with it instead.

> I hate to pull a “if you were [raised] Catholic you would understaaaaand” here, but truly, I think it is very difficult for folks outside of Catholicism to internalize that we’re/they’re* the assholes who birthed the Jesuits, that the tradition of radical nuns is alive and well, etc. To me, the ways that TLT is reflective of a …. complicated… perspective on Catholicism signal “perfectly normal gay Catholic” rather than it truly being an outsider’s perspective.

> *my relationship to Catholicism is complex enough that neither pronoun feels appropriate