2024-05-03 5:40:39 ¶ ● ⬈

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What's the deal with the obscure cult thing

dingodad:

> the trolls’ introductions give us an outline of each troll’s position in their society. we have to remember that, at the point of the trolls’ introduction, the caste system was only kind of just starting to be born as a concept. gamzee’s introduction on p. 2012, where we get the “You belong to a RATHER OBSCURE CULT” line, comes a whole 70 pages before we even get this exchange:

> > GC: SOLLUX, PL34S3 / GC: YOU 4R3 MR 4PPL3B3RRY BL4ST 4ND 3V3RYON3 KNOWS THOS3 4R3 YOUR F4VOR1T3 FL4VORS / GC: 3V3N THOUGH YOU TYP3 1N YUCKY MUST4RD / GC: WH1CH 1S W31RD >:\
> > TA: maybe there ii2 more two me than you thiink. […] maybe ii ju2t want two giive the red and blue thiing a re2t for a change and not make iit 2o iit2 liike, oh look iit2 that prediictable fuck wiith tho2e two 2tupiid color2, iit2 amaziing how much everyone fuckiing hate2 hiim.

> of which Hussie has this to say in the published commentary (Book 4, p. 101):

> > Terezi says it’s weird that Sollux types in yucky mustard, even though his “favorite colors” are red and blue. It’s really not weird at all, considering literally everyone in his blood class types in that color. But this idea may not have been fully locked in yet as an ironclad canon fact. While Hivebent continuously provides the scoop on what the facts of this culture are, it is simultaneously exploring certain nebulous ideas before fully committing to them. This is a very good strategy when it comes to improvisational worldbuilding.

> when Gamzee’s cult is described as “obscure”, it makes no sense to interpret this as meaning “obscure within his caste”, because the caste idea wasn’t even fully formed in the author’s mind at that point in time, let alone the reader’s. what that line is saying is that Gamzee’s cult is obscure within his society. and everyone seems to ignore the very sentence after that comment, which says exactly what i’m saying, almost explicitly:

> > The beliefs of this cult are SOMEWHAT FROWNED UPON by those dwelling in more common lawnrings.

> Gamzee’s beliefs are strange to commoners. the very clear implication being that among the upper echelons of Alternian society, being a juggalo isn’t that frowned upon at all! sometimes Hussie leaves things unsaid about the world of Homestuck because they’re not important or to deliberately leave them up to interpretation, but quite often things go unsaid because when you read between the lines they really should speak for themselves. the fact that Alternia’s upper castes are more and more uncommon is one of these things (but to drive the point home, there’s this comment from Formspring: “lower classes must be much more copious than higher classes. The lowbloods die off much more quickly, and so must be spawned in greater numbers.”).

> it’s odd that this particular “obscure cult” line has become a sticking point, because Kanaya’s intro does the exact same thing when it describes her as “one of the few of [her] kind who can withstand the BLISTERING ALTERNIAN SUN, and perhaps the only who enjoys the feel of its rays.” we all seem to understand that this isn’t claiming daywalking as a unique power of Kanaya’s, but merely hinting at the fact that Kanaya is part of a rare caste with that ability. I guess many don’t make the comparison because Gamzee’s caste is never explicitly singled out as a rare one?

> from there, what limited background we do get on the Alternian regime hammers home the point. “subjugglator” (this has the word juggalo in it. a lot of people try to get out of this one) and “Highblood” are used as functional synonyms in Scratch’s intermission:

> > p. 4054: The highbloods were livid over the unprecedented heresy, and soon, a massive sectarian war followed, spreading across the planet and throughout the galaxy. The conflict was lopsided of course, with the Highbloods given full support from the Condesce and her sea dwellers.
> > p. 4063: [the Condesce] could use her leverage to delegate oppression to the subjugglators, whose unique abilities and exceptional brutality made them natural enforcers. They too would delegate in their governance, exploiting the pride and loyalty of dangerous bluebloods beneath them…

> the fact that the guy literally called The Grand Highblood is a massive clown is basically garnish; but the fact that the word Highblood with a capital H, even outside of the context of Gamzee’s ancestor, was basically used exclusively to refer to purplebloods in the comic seems to have been largely forgotten. this only continues into Act 6, even when a lot of the fandom’s misconceptions and reconceptions of the lore started to seep into the comic proper:

> > You’re not really up on Alternian history, but apparently at some point the empress got fed up with the Subjugglators’ stranglehold on the soda market, and released a drink that was said to be more loaded with sugar than even the wicked elixir itself. The Highbloods considered such marketing reports to be blasphemous lies, however. (Act 6 Intermission 1, part 2)

> emphasis all my own, to make clear that basically no distinction is made between Highbloods as a political institution and the subjugglators as a religious authority. but really, Act 6 is when the whole clown thing should have started to become really obvious, anyway, with lines like “There was this sense that [the Condesce] just loved the idea of delegating the extreme subjugation of the world’s population to a pair of demented clown rappers” and the increasing inescapability of Lord English’s influence on the story only entrenching that the presence of these juggalos on Alternia had real significance and was not some one off joke.

> years ago when it was at its peak, the idea that the subjugglators “were only ever meant to be an obscure cult” seemed to me to have originated among troll enthusiasts who dropped off the comic around Scratch’s takeover and didn’t really care for overarching plot points like Lord English taking prominence into Act 6. but I guess now that troll discussion has started to center the design process that went into the Hiveswap trolls, the argument has circled back around into the mainstream? but basically to answer your question the deal with the obscure cult thing is that it’s bogus. people wanted to make fantrolls who weren’t juggaloes because what they fundamentally forget is that a race of juggalos controlling alternia is actually meant to be, and is, really fucking funny