(actual discussion question not an attempt to start a fight) i rea dthe spamton post twice and idk if im dumb or smth but im not sure i understand the ending bit? like spamton doesnt hide a tragedy, and in fact never says much about his backstory to you (directly or implying) other than that he used to be big. his backstory is actually told to you by the addisons (who were actually there to witness his falk from grace) after you beat his boss fight in a normal route. he has no control over how his story is told to you. regardless of the progression of time in the dark world, that backstory was real to the addisons and real to him.

him being read as a mastermind manipulator is also a bit odd because like. he lives in the dumpster as a failed businessman specifically because hes just godawful at lying and manipulating. his entire plan relies on the kris’ puppeteer, the player, being curious enough to see where this leads, even if we dont at all believe what hes laying down (and the player is very clearly part of the narrative in deltarune).

like spamton isnt a good person (he’ll ice kris for his own “freedom” whatever that entails, and hes p foul mouthed and rude to kids) but his backstory is real enough to him, and it lends him a pitiable quality (especially the scene right after his normal route boss fight where he seems to regain hold of his senses for a few moments). and his established backstory doesnt really leave room for him to be particularly cunning (like his best plan to get into the mansion was to try and imitate swatch. which is hilarious btw).

again idk if i like misunderstood some parts of the post or smth.

(in reference to this post)

You’re the second person to use words along the lines of “master manipulator”, which is a misinterpretation of my post, so I think I should start with that. My saying that Spamton is a character who is essentially manipulative isn’t the same as saying that he’s particular good at it (though it needs to be said that being a “good manipulator” can mean a myriad of different things depending on context, or the manipulator’s intentions). What Spamton’s constantly deceptions say about him is that he is a desperate manipulator. Like the advertisements and the car salesmen he is inspired by, he doesn’t need to deceive everyone; he only needs to find one vulnerable or gullible enough person to make his big break. That’s why he attaches himself to Kris and insists that Kris only ever interact with him while they’re alone; both battles with NEO show that Kris cannot beat Spamton on their own.

(Whether it is actually Kris or the player that Spamton believes he is manipulating is largely irrelevant. He’s looking for someone who’ll listen to him and believe him; and in the case of Snowgrave, he’s willing to push children to extremes to attain what he wants, whether someone else is also manipulating those kids or not.)

You’re also the second person to mention the fact that he lives in a dumpster as evidence that he’s ineffectual… I think this is majorly missing the point. The fact that your first encounter with Spamton involves him crawling out of a dumpster like a miserable lowlife is part of the act! This kind of “I’ve fallen on hard times and need your help” ploy is a classic part of the toolset of this type of person/advertisement. As a Darkner, Spamton’s life plays out to a certain script, and being a pathetic, seemingly sympathetic person is precisely part of the spam advertisement script.

Now, this is where a lot of people seem to be losing me. I am not necessarily saying Spamton’s backstory did not happen to him (in as much as anything can “happen” to a Darkner). I do not necessarily deny that Spamton (believes he) fell upon hard times and had to start living in a dumpster. My main assertion is that very little of this actually effects Spamton in the way he pretends it does. He’s milking his tragedy as a selling strategy.

One needs to examine the recurring themes in Deltarune thus far. We know Darkners can’t die, at least in the sense we are familiar with; hitting them until their health runs out only results in their running away. This makes sense, because they are objects. You can’t kill a playing card any more than you can kill a window on your operating system. Similarly, though we are led to believe that King is rough with his son in Chapter 1, as of Chapter 2 this actually seems to have been a joke. If you throw Lancer against something, he just bounces. Again, he is a toy, an object. He doesn’t seem to experience “hurt” in the same way a person would.

This same logic should be applied to Spamton. If you throw a playing card on the ground, the playing card doesn’t care; why should a spam email “care” if it’s put in a trash folder? (Again, this is part of the spam email’s “script”.) Furthermore; if we are to believe Spamton was at one point, at least in his mind, thrown out of Queen’s castle, then Queen or her underlings should be the ones held responsible for this, no? But if one thing is clear from Chapter 2, it’s that Queen is not a malicious character. If Spamton was thrown from Queen’s mansion on her orders, then there are only two real options that are consistent with Queen’s character.

1. Queen believed that throwing Spamton on the streets would not actually effect him adversely, in the same vein as King’s treatment of Lancer. Again, why should a computer feel badly about putting a spam file in the trash? It’s in both of their very routines.
   OR
2. Queen did think Spamton would suffer from his punishment, and she believed that he deserved it. (Refer back to the idea of Spamton representing some past trauma of Noelle’s: given Queen’s (albeit misguided) maternal fondness for Noelle, this would also be a perfectly fitting scenario).

It is true that much of what we know about Spamton’s past comes from the Addisons; but if we take the Addisons at their word, Spamton’s story is not a particularly sympathetic one!

It’s the classic story of selling your soul for power, becoming big headed, and having everything blow up in your face. Of course he tries to get his power back by having someone else sell their soul to him.

It’s only when we take Spamton’s own lines into account - see the situation from his tinted, warped view - that it starts to become anything resembling a sad story. When he talks about how badly the acid burns, or wails and cries about his furniture being taken as Queen evicts him…

…he’s performing for an audience, instinctively, even when an audience isn’t there. There is no reason whatsoever to believe him when he says this stuff. I’m not here to tell anyone how they should feel about a video game character. That’s not what this blog is for, it’s not really something I give a shit about. This is just analysis of a character with regards to the themes of the greater work. But if I were to voice my personal opinion, as informed by this reading of Deltarune Chapter 2, it would be that if you do take pity on Spamton, don’t do it just because he tells you to! It’s exactly statements like “the scene where he seems to regain hold of his senses for a few moments” that I take issue with. Why is it that his sympathetic moments are treated as “the real Spamton” and his cruel, manipulative moments are simply an affliction, when that way of thinking is the complete reverse of what a personified spam email represents?