Why is LE a quantifiable threat to Paradox space and Bec Noir wasn't? Both are incredibly powerful entities born Sburb sessions that are likened to deceases that destroy universes.
First of all, this was a quote by Doc Scratch trying to magnify the threat of Bec Noir to convince Rose to detonate the Tumor in the Furthest Ring, so that’s a thing to have in mind. Beyond that, however, Lord English is the Lord of Time, his existence is basically a Time Loop that Paradox Space needs to follow, from his Birth to his Destruction, all the events leading from the beginning to the end are immutable and planned. Lord English infiltrates and destroys Universes until the Great Undoing, when his reign comes to an end. His influence has a finite reach, by the mere nature of it. Bec Noir, however, is a Rogue Agent with First Guardian Powers, with a reach not limited to the Alpha Timeline, and who likes fucking shit up as much if not more than Lord English. He’s not as powerful as the Big Man himself- But without PM going after him for three solid years, he would’ve been a way, way more unpredictable force. Hell, even AFTER he loses his First Guardian powers, he takes over the Felt and heads to Earth-C where the Kids are, the guy is just relentless in his ambitions to do stuff. Lord English is trapped in his own cycle of destruction, but Bec Noir can do as he pleases.
I don't know if there were any "unanswered questions" in Homestuck for me. Just things left open to interpretation. I feel like if there was suddenly pages devoted to answering every question near the end it would have been out of place, or out of character (why would the main characters care about all the details?). Plus it would take away the magic of it. Arguably the funnest part of Homestuck is interpreting/theorizing. So I wholeheartedly enjoyed the ending. I'll enjoy the epilogue too.
I agree with this, although I do feel the Epilogue will shed light on some things. You’ll see my thoughts on this in full when I finish the post I’ve been working on for like, a couple of hours now. (It’s gonna be a long one)
Alright then, as I’ve mentioned, I wanted to debate a few points I’ve heard about the Ending, consider it a sort of bonus celebrating over 2000 Posts and 1000 Followers!
But before I say anything, let me preface this by saying: This is not trying to make you like the Ending, rather it’s trying to make you realize why you dislike the Ending. There’s very valid criticisms to the Ending and the Story as a whole and you can just dislike the direction it took- But what I want is debunk a few things the Fandom seems to have really clung to that I think are extremely hollow and just, outright false at times.
So let’s begin, shall we?
The Retcon created a Timeline where everyone’s struggles had been solved, and the characters in it were vastly different from how they used to be.
This one is sincerely one of my biggest Pet Peeves, and I’ve talked about it partially before. A general consensus is that the Retconned Timeline solved every single key problem the Characters on the Meteor had, destroyed Character Development shown for those Characters, and thus, created versions of themselves that were vastly different. Vriska planted herself as a Miracle Solved and everyone lived Happily Ever After.
Except this really is not the case, at all. Vriska’s presence was ultimately extremely useful to disable Jade without killing her. For everyone else, no problems are fixed, and the conception that they do is, I feel, a heavy misunderstanding of what the characters actually struggle with. Let’s go one by one.
Rose and Alcoholism
This is a major one because we see Vriska literally smack a glass right off of Rose’s hand and slam it. Many people don’t even know why Vriska would do something like that, but they just straight up assume this deterred Rose from getting drunk, and instantly fixed every problem she ever had. This is an awful misreading of where Rose’s true problems lie.
“ROSE: And it was all mixed up with feelings of conflict and remorse over my mother.
ROSE: I sort of ran with it too? ROSE: The habit, I mean. For a while at least. ROSE:I was still distraught about losing her. And wanted to understand her. ROSE: To connect with her, in some way. And I guess that was the only idea I had.“
“ROSE: This almost makes it official. ROSE: I have no comprehensible path. There’s nothing to overcome, no lesson to learn, no cathartic light at the end of this preposterous tunnel. ROSE: Not for me, at least! ROSE: I seriously have the DUMBEST arc anyone could conceivably imagine.“
“ROSE: I think my quest was fundamentally bound to the nature of this land, which was customized to the profile, needs, and potential for growth of a thirteen year-old girl. ROSE: But I’m not that person anymore. ROSE: What if I ROSE: What if I just ROSE: Didn’t bother doing it? ROSE: Like, ever? ROSE: Would anyone notice my dereliction? ROSE: Would the powers that be strike me down where I loaf? ROSE: What if I just said fuck it?“
“DAVE: she sees this quest all neatly laid out for her wrapped in a bow DAVE: fuck it even looks like its made for little kids with like pink turtles and rainbows and shit DAVE: like here you go princess its babys first quest DAVE: almost like it was designed to piss her off DAVE: sburb says here, self improvement delineated and made comprehensible enjoy your cookie cutter odyssey DAVE: so because shes rose she goes no fuck my quest DAVE: literally starts wrecking shit DAVE: and maybe that itself was always her quest“
Rose’s problems aren’t with Alcoholism. They’re with her regret over her Mother, what she has Done up until this point, and her Purpose to the overall story she finds herself in. Alcohol is a way for her to ‘connect’ with her deceased mother, to prepare herself to meet Roxy, and at the same time, to take a weight off her shoulders, to not have to Think about what she’s supposed to do. She’s stressed, anxious and has severe doubts about her Self. Vriska just wanted a functional Seer for the Upcoming Battle, but this underlying unease that’s what drove her to Alcoholism in the first place is not gone.
Terezi and Gamzee
Post-Retcon, Terezi never gets together with Gamzee. Vriska keeps her in check as her Moirail, Gamzee is tied up and suppressed, she never falls for his abuse, nor does she unblind herself. However if you think this solves Terezi’s problems in the slightest I don’t know what to tell you, really.
“GC: 1 DON’T KNOW WH4T 1S WRONG W1TH M3 GC: TH4T 1 C4N’T JUST S4Y STUFF L1K3 TH4T, D1R3CTLY TO P3OPL3 GC: TH3Y C3RT41NLY DON’T 4PP34R TO H4V3 TH4T PROBL3M
GC: 1 W4S JUST P1SS3D 4BOUT YOUR 4TT1TUD3 OF C3RT41NTY GC: 4ND 4NGRY 4T MYS3LF FOR NOT H4V1NG 1T GC: 1 TH1NK 1T’S SOM3TH1NG 1 N33D3D 1N MY L1F3 GC: 3V3N 1F 1T C4M3 FROM SOM3ON3 3LS3
GC: 1 N3V3R F3LT WHOL3 GC: 1 ST1LL DON’T GC: 4ND YOU M4D3 1T SO 1 D1DN’T H4V3 TO F4C3 TH4T F33L1NG GC: FOR 4 WH1L3 4T L34ST GC: 4ND NOW TH4T 1 TH1NK 1 KNOW TH1S 4BOUT MYS3LF GC: 1 TH1NK 1 G3T 1T GC: TH3 F33L1NG W1LL PROB4BLY N3V3R GO 4W4Y GC: ONLY COV3R3D UP 4T MOST, M4YB3 GC: W3 COULD W1N TH1S F1GHT GC: CR34T3 4NOTH3R UN1V3RS3 GC: SUCC33D 1N 3V3RY W4Y POSS1BL3 GC: 4ND 1’LL ST1LL F33L 1NCOMPL3T3“
“TEREZI: OH PL34S3 TEREZI: WH4T COULD YOU POSS1BLY N33D M3 FOR?
TEREZI: 1 DONT TH1NK 1 W1LL B3 V3RY US3FUL
TEREZI: 1 DONT H4V3 MUCH TO OFF3R 3V3N ON MY B3ST D4Y”
Just like Rose’s issues, Terezi’s run deeper than just her getting together with Gamzee and ‘fixing’ her blindness. It’s a deep insecurity about herself, which exists there both Pre and Post Retcon, and being with Vriska is but a Temporary Fix. She needs to experience what Game Over Terezi did in order to even bring herself to join the final fight, and even after that, she still goes to track after Vriska, after everything is done.
Karkat, Relationships, Leadership.
So, Dave and Karkat get together in the Post Retcon Timeline, so there’s no Relationship Drama with Terezi, and Vriska takes over the Meteor’s leadership, leaving Karkat to chill. This seems uncharacteristic of him, even, except that, of course, he doesn’t just give up to his role as a Leader.
“KARKAT: WOW! HAHA, HA, HAHAHAHA! ME LEADER?? TOO FUNNY! KARKAT: I AM ENTIRELY AND SINGULARLY BAFFLED THAT IT COULD STILL EVEN *OCCUR* TO ANYONE TO ENTERTAIN THE NOTION THAT I MIGHT STILL BE PLAYING *ANY* ROLE EVEN WITHIN SNIFFING ORBIT OF A LEADERSHIP POSITION OF THIS RIDICULOUS PARTY. KARKAT: WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME I DID *ANYTHING* OF A LEADER-LIKE NATURE, WITHOUT BEING TRUMPED BY VRISKA’S MACHIAVELLIAN LIMELIGHT GLUTTONY? KARKAT: OR FOR THAT MATTER, WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME THERE WAS ACTUALLY ANYTHING LEADERY *TO* DO, THAT DIDN’T INVOLVE SNUGGLING UP ON THE COUCH TO WATCH “GOOD LUCK CHUCK” FOR THE FIVE HUNDREDTH TIME?! KARKAT: I HAVE SERIOUSLY JUST BEEN ASSUMING HER COMPLETE TAKEOVER OF ALL LEADERSHIP DUTIES WAS SOME FAIT ACCOMPLI SHIT FOR THREE SOLID YEARS, AND HAVE SINCE BEEN ENJOYING THE PEACE AND QUIET OF ZERO RESPONSIBILITIES, WHICH IS WHY QUITE FRANKLY, I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO KEEP MY BLOOD PRESSURE DOWN, AND NOW RESEMBLE THE LIVING EMBODIMENT OF PEACE AND FUCKING TRANQUILITY WHICH PRESENTLY BASKS BEFORE YOU IN A STATE OF FROTHING, EUPHORIA-HOBBLED TURDVANA!!!!!!!!“
He’s extremely obviously bitter about being left out of the loop, and hurt about not being the Leader anymore. He jumps at the opportunity to go beat Lord English up without a second thought, and leads the initial charge, which doesn’t end exactly well for him. Echidna does, however, imply that Karkat will have an important part in actually leading the new Troll Civilization. Karkat is not the best leader when it comes to a War-like battle scenario- But if his conversation with Terezi after finding her Unblinded is anything to go by, he’s a great Emotional Leader. Even Pre-Retcon where all the Problems Happened and there was Terezi Drama, he provided support to her and got along with Dave, even if it took a little while. Being cast from his position as a Leader Frustrates him heavily, and digs deeper into the Doubt he displayed after he started having the realization that the Cancer was his fault. He’s frustrated, more impulsive than before, and even though he has Dave to back him up, it’s still tough.
Dave. Just. Dave.
Honestly, there’s not much of a difference between Game Over and Post Retcon Dave, is there? He’s dating Karkat, sure, but there’s not much else. If anything, the major difference comes later on, with the Dogfight vs the Jackfight. We learn from his talk with Dirk about his hatred for Bro, his dislike for fighting, the sound of metal, the sight of blood. His hatred of Heroism because of him, and it ties well to him not wanting to use his Time Powers or Fight Jade- Training him to become stronger, Grimbark Jade basically wanted to do the same to him as Bro had been doing since he was born. But he does grab his weapon- When he knows he can bring Jade back, if he just snatches her away from the Dogs. This leads to his Death. On the other hand, though, when he fights the Jacks, he has managed to actually have a Heart-to-Heart with Dirk, and vent about everything that’s been tormenting him. This fight, too, ends with him breaking the Unbreakable Katana and Decapitating Dirk, before warping him away from the fight so he could be put back together by Jane afterwards. There’s a Catharsis for Dave, but as he tells Dirk, it’ll probably just keep building back up for a few years before needing a feels jam again. He got enough of a resolution, but his problems weren’t gone, and even if they were gone, they’re not gone by the nature of the Retcon, rather, by the nature of Meeting Dirk, which he was actively prevented from doing so in the Game Over Timeline. This is a development we also see on-screen, so there can’t be much of a complaint about it, right?
Kanaya
Without Rose Drunk and with Gamzee restrained, Kanaya’s focus post-Retcon returns to the Matriorb and rebuilding Troll Civilization. This is a tricky one, because you could say that Vriska did help Kanaya with this, and it is true that, by proxy, Kanaya didn’t have to do as much in the Meteor. But, these aren’t her Problems, rather they are things she helped with, and furthermore the presence of Vriska in general poses a problem for Kanaya. Still bitter about her old Red Crush on her, and with her being Meddlesome and butting in on her and Rose, she expresses explicit distaste when talking to her. Vriska is just up in everyone’s business and being a nuisance more than she’s an actual help. As for the Matriorb, well, with the issues leading up to Game Over they didn’t even have the possibility to focus on Troll Repopulation, so it’s a thing that’s brought up exclusively in the Post-Retcon Timeline. This is solved effortlessly, which actually brings new thoughts and issues to the table!
“KANAYA: So Instead Of All That KANAYA: Its Just KANAYA: Handed To Me KANAYA: Like A Nice Present ROXY: yes KANAYA: I Dont Know What To Say KANAYA: This Changes So Much KANAYA: About Everything I Thought I Had To Do”
Kanaya suddenly isn’t as sure about fighting, with the responsibility she suddenly has- Yet Roxy encourages her to go take down Condy. This is paralleled by Davepeta telling Jade to just do what she wants to do! But more on this later.
Vriska vs (Vriska)
The hottest topic of the Retcon. Vriska’s Character Development is absolutely ruined by her being brought back, and you know what? I do agree with this! But that’s the thing though- I think this is good? Like. A lot of people complain about Vriska coming back and fixing everyone’s problems and being glorified, but as I’ve just displayed up above, Vriska is anything but Glorified. She’s forced everyone to do what she wants without actually solving any problem, she’s pushy, she’s cocky, and then we have a literal confrontation between her and (Vriska)…
“VRISKA: 8e quiet. I’m talking. VRISKA: Look at you. VRISKA: Just looooooook at you. VRISKA: How completely pathetic. (VRISKA): What? (VRISKA): What’s your pro8lem?! VRISKA: My pro8lem is you make me fucking sick. “
“(VRISKA): I’m not a loser though! (VRISKA): I LIKE who I’ve 8ecome. (VRISKA): I actually feel happy and good a8out my life for the first time in… may8e forever?? (VRISKA): Like, ACTUALLY good a8out my life in a way that feels real, instead of forced. Don’t you realize that’s what it was like for us? VRISKA: You don’t have a life! VRISKA: You’re DEAD, remem8er?”
The Vriska vs (Vriska) interaction is one of my favorite parts of the entire Webcomic, because we have the Cocky Vriska that never actually developed positively, facing the Vriska that actually did have personal growth. Furthermore, neither the Plan to fight in the Session goes as she planned, nor does she gather the Army, or even lead it for most of the part, and ultimately her contribution to the Final Fight is to literally open the Juju Chest. She Steals the Spotlight, and the only ones to actually glorify this are the people in the Fandom. Everyone else within the story actually suffers more than they are actively helped by Vriska’s Actions, and that is what makes me absolutely love her leading towards the Ending. She’s the Savior Figure that comes back from the Dead to fix everything stereotype, except she actually barely fixes anything, and is an actively toxic force for most of the characters. Meanwhile (Vriska), after Aranea leaves them, actually does introspection about what she’d been doing and positively changes, culminating with a reunion with GO! Terezi. That is the culmination of Vriska’s Character Arc, Terezi Remem8er, and Vriska going for Lord English is ultimately detrimental for her Character. You can dislike that Vriska’s character ended up like that, but that’s the thing, saying that’s a bad part of the story is subjective, because it’s the obvious intention of the story to display this duality between Vriska and (Vriska)!
Not only that, but all I’ve said about these characters, about Pre vs Post Retcon, is entirely taken from canon statements by the Characters, straight up saying their problems in one way or another, and by the way their actions shape the stories. Both Pre and Post Scratch display the effects of the Characters’ deeper issues in different situations, how they cope with them and how they work towards solving them. You know why they all seem to fix their issues more Post-Retcon than Pre-Retcon? Because they don’t Die. It’s not that they’re even that differently developed, they simply get further. Rose was already talking to Kanaya about her issues before Game Over, Terezi was working towards fixing things and ultimately led to John’s Retcon Quest, they had different issues, stemming from the same main struggles, and that did not change at all.
I’d like to close this section with a quote by Hussie on Character Writing.
“I think writing in voice is pretty simple. It’s mostly about consistency. Choosing a set of parameters and committing to them absolutely. […] The advantage in being so obstinate with the profile you choose is then any deviation you make will be very noticeable. This is to your advantage, if you can control these deviations with purpose and precision.“
And honestly? Dave still feels like Dave. Rose still feels like Rose. Terezi still feels like Terezi. The deviation from their core character is minor, and these deviations are, in turn, explored and talked about with their interactions, putting some context to what they’re doing and what they’re striving for. Honestly, I feel a lot of the issues with Game Over and the Post-Retcon Timeline come from the fact they were the… Post-Gigapause Updates, and a lot of people just forgot a lot of stuff. But let’s move on, this first section has gone on for WAY TOO LONG.
Act 7 wasn’t a satisfying conclusion to the story. Plot Threads and Character Arcs were dropped entirely, and everything was left incredibly ambiguous.
Let’s start this by pointing something out: Act 7 wasn’t actually the End of Homestuck. One of the reasons Act 7 might feel bad is the fact that a lot of things aren’t solved. And that’s alright, because Act 7 isn’t the Ending of the Characters’ Stories, nor is it the end of everything that happens. Act 7 is the culmination of Calliope’s purpose, the Finale brought to Lord English’ Alpha Timeline, and the Ending of the SBURB Session the Kids have played. Hell- The Credits, without even going to the Post-Canon Snapchat Updates, shows us that there’s still obviously more going on. Terezi is still looking for Vriska, Aradia, Sollux and Davepeta are missing too, John is depressed because he has nothing to do, Caliborn is being an asshole through Snapchat occasionally.
The thing is that a lot of Plot Threads weren’t actually solved in Act 7, rather they were solved before Act 7, sometimes even extremely unceremoniously, like with Caliborn’s Masterpiece. And most important events in Homestuck? We’ve actually seen how they begin, and how they end. There’s ambiguity in the way you go from point A to point B, as well as some Timeline Weirdness with some things, again, like Caliborn’s Masterpiece.
Additionally, a few things about the Final Battle, the fate of Vriska and Lord English and Paradox Space, have been left ambiguous, and this is not unintentional. You may dislike ambiguous endings, and that’s honestly, perfectly okay? The ambiguity, or the ‘anticlimax’, you can dislike it, but the spite held against the Ending is, mostly, subjective tastes?
This however, doesn’t even touch one of the most important things about the Ending, and that is, that we don’t have the Epilogue yet. We’ve been left with nearly the whole picture, nearly the whole Puzzle of Homestuck, laid out before our eyes, and there are still some pieces missing that could come from the Epilogue! But even without it, I do believe we have enough pieces to put most of the picture together, enough that the rest of holes becomes sort of, obvious, or easy to interpret in different ways? The Epilogue could offer closure to the things we don’t know about, but what I’ve seen around, mostly, is that instead of trying to give closure to these open questions about the story, people have rather resorted to getting angry at the whole of the comic! This is, really, the aggravating attitude that’s made me make this post in the first place trying to debunk some of the more popular Ending Criticism. If you have any specific ‘We don’t know how this happened!’ question, feel free to send me an Ask and we can talk about it! In fact, let me answer to one of those Asks right now.
“What happened to LE?” Unless the Epilogue does pull a switcheroo, the Ending obviously assumes he has been defeated. The symbolism of the Treasure taking the shape of a Cueball and LE’s eyes becoming 8-Balls, with the Breach as the ‘Pocket’ certainly implies he’s been cast into the Black Hole, but there could’ve been more of a fight! Does the Treasure open to free the Souls of the Kids? Does it just Attack Him? That is something that’s left up to the imagination at the very least until the Epilogue happens, and instead we’re left with the image of the Kids Happy on Earth-C- It doesn’t quite matter how he’s defeated, because we know that he has been defeated, and the Kids are living happily post-ending. This could change in the Epilogue, yes, but if it does change, then we’ll have more of the story to go, which will mean that wasn’t the True Ending to begin with, yet still leaving us with the tools to build an actual Happy True Ending. That is the beauty of ambiguity in a story when you DO have the pieces to build what happens until the story continues post-canon!
“Does caliborn still turn into LE?” He needs to do so to become Lord English, however the Masterpiece also implies the possibility of our Caliborn and the Caliborn that becomes Lord English being two different Caliborns. This is, again, left ambiguous in the same way LE’s defeat is. We do know he HAS to become LE, and we also KNOW how he becomes LE. But then the seed of doubt is planted- Is it the same Caliborn? And that is how speculation, talk and theories about the Ending spark, still giving a satisfying conclusion because we know it has to happen somehow, but leaving us to ponder about the specifics, without holding back on important pieces of information that we NEED to know.
“Where’s Vriska?” That’s what Terezi is trying to find, and it’ll likely be one of the main points of the Epilogue. The fact she’s still looking for her however, implies that she’s been missing for over three years. She has accomplished what she went out to do, defeat Lord English. Now the question is, will she come back and redeem herself? Or did she fall with Lord English into the Breach, as a Karmic Retribution of all the bad things she has done? Does she deserve the same Fate as the Villain? Or is there still hope for her? For a character as controversial as Vriska, I honestly love that her fate has been left ambiguous so far.
As for Gamzee, I mean he’s extremely devout to LE and he’s fated to become part of him, granting him a Plot Shield. We do know why he’s so hard to kill, and we also know exactly in what way he ends up becoming part of LE. There’s some weird things left Ambiguous, like his Ghosts, but even that it’s speculation that doesn’t necessarily influence the Ending Result.
As I mentioned above? We have most of the Puzzle Pieces, and the ones we don’t have are intentionally left out for us to fill the hole with our own headcanons and theories. I can’t think of any important thing we don’t see the origin or result of, leaving just certain bits in between to the speculation.
But some of the Characters had their Arcs Dropped, didn’t have their problems solved, or were shafted entirely by the story.
Here we start to get into more messy territory with the Criticism Endings, because rather than misunderstanding, a lot of these are opinions! For example, I do agree I would’ve loved seeing some more Jane towards the ending. However I really don’t think anyone was ‘shafted’ by the story. In fact, I’ve heard people mention how Davepetasprite and Jasprosesprite were, somehow, attempts at reducing the amount of characters towards the ending, and like…
What? So you’re saying reducing the amount of characters towards the ending is accomplished… By making new Characters that present us with really interesting nuances and takes on the world of Homestuck? Are you sure about that? Hell, if Hussie really wanted to reduce the amount of characters, he would’ve killed off every Sprite Pre-Retcon, and not brought Rose back from where Roxy buried her. Were Davepeta and Jasprose afterthoughts that weren’t planned? Purrhaps. But they add onto the story, they are not an attempt to reduce anything. That being said, a lot of people that say this also call the Ending ‘rushed’, somehow. Listen buddy, you can’t simply. Rush something like the Ending of Homestuck. It took way too much time to make for it to not be completely premeditated.
A lot of characters, too, have more Depth to their Arcs than people give Hussie credit for, and while they do suffer or while they don’t interact with someone else as much as other people may, that doesn’t mean they are shafted by the story.
But let’s do this one at a time. Let’s begin with Dead Characters, and just let me say that, straight up, having everyone survive at the end wouldn’t have been as satisfying as you may think. Could Equius have learned to stand up for himself? Could Feferi have done more? Yeah, sure. Could the Dancestors have been more developed? That’s also true! But Death and Conflict happen in Homestuck, and you cannot give every character an equal amount of attention. Furthermore, expecting every character to develop positively is also unrealistic and, honestly, bad? The Trickster Arc is a parody of this, in fact, an accomplishment of the innermost desire of have your problems go away, share everything you want to share and just do everything you want! That problem-less happiness for everyone feels forced and uncanny, having everyone come back happily and develop positively would be worse than having some of them die off. The Dancestors, too, are precisely the way they are as examples of stagnant Character Development. Even Aranea and Meenah, which are the most developed of the Dancestors, follow this same tend. Meenah mentions how Aranea acting the way she did is not unlike the stuff she always did, and Meenah struggles with the fact that she cannot change the way she is, and follows after Vriska and not (Vriska) because it’s in her nature to Do Shit. It’s fun to write about further development and AUs! But in the canonical story of the magnitude and with the themes Homestuck touches, you simply can’t develop them all equally and positively. And while they could’ve been given more screen time, also, well. With so many characters it becomes hard to balance time and interactions.
Jade is another character that many feel was shafted by the story, but honestly this is not true? She suffered the 3 Years on the Prospit Ship and Struggled with her nature as a Space Player and what she was supposed to do- Just like most characters struggled with something. And in the end? Against what she thought Paradox Space had stored for her? She woke up happily to a letter by Dave about missing her. She tried to pacify her dogs and played with them the way she wanted rather than being put to sleep or fighting them. She did what she wanted to do, not what she thought she was ‘supposed’ to be doing.
Jake is also a very complex character towards the ending. His insecurities are pushed on him over and over until he nearly gives up his friends- Note, this is the boy that died to protect Jane without a second thought in the Game Over Timeline. Vriska pushes his insecurities and Tavros really doesn’t quite help at all. And in the End? He manages to prove himself to not be a useless fuck-up by defeating the most amount of villains in the Final Battle, rising victorious on top of a pile of defeated, Time-Warping, Meddlesome Felt Members. The task Vriska had given to him as she thought was the least important, and that happened to be one of the most difficult battles without a single doubt. Here, I would’ve personally liked to see more dialog about Jake finding out more self worth? But the sweet reunion with everyone else and with Dirk leading to Act 7, and the return of his Adventurer Persona by the Credits still expose development.
Jane is also mentioned to have been shafted at times. I would’ve loved to see her hug Dad when they reunited, but I’d say we got even more with her clinging to him in Earth-C during Act 7. Other than that, though? One of the things Jane has suffered for the most in the comic is being repressed and controlled. Condy, Jake shoving her in a more than desirable situation for her… However, her meeting with Jade and Callie bring some excitement and fun after being Mind-Controlled for a long time, and her encounter with Nannasprite reinvigorates her with confidence about being a Heroine herself, leading to the final Battle where she proves to be both a powerful healer and aggressor! And by the end, not only is she finally able to do what she wants, she takes over Crockercorp to make it her company as she wanted, and ends up with two lovely Girlfriends.
Indeed, there could be more to them, there could be more dialog, more is better after all! But I don’t think their Arcs are cut short, nor that they’re shafted by the story. Rather they showcase different struggles with reality and with themselves, that they need to overcome? And as Dave told us, Humans don’t have Character Arcs. They build up confidence towards the Final Battle to finish everything, to win the game together, and then they reunite one last time before passing into the New World. And here they will still have problems, for sure. But at the very least, the Game is finished, and they can leave behind a very unpleasant stage in their lives. Jade was Isolated, Jane was Corrupted, Jake was shamed, but in the end they reunited again, made amends where they needed to, and continue their lives with their unique sets of nuances and problems. John and Terezi, which are given some of the most development, are the two that end the most unhappy, in fact, with John having no purpose anymore and falling to depression, and Terezi obsessively chasing after Vriska still, but this doesn’t mean John’s character was ‘shafted’. His friends still encourage him, Jade still wants to visit him for his Birthday, everyone misses Terezi, they have each other and they all love each other, but internal struggles continue. As the Trickster Arc taught us, it’s something to work on, progressively, not suddenly have it all be fixed, and going through a bit of suffering to reach a happy end doesn’t mean being shafted, either.
The story conveys what it wants to convey with the characters. Whether you agree with what they convey, or if you’d want there to be more about them, now that’s an entirely different can of worms, and that’s why Fanfiction exists and why you’re not only allowed, but encouraged to give your take on the characters and the story!
The problem with the Ending is that it tried something the Story wasn’t. The ‘Meta’ elements, the ‘Symbolism’, it’s cool, but ultimately feels tacked on/Wasn’t conveyed properly through the story, and as such, made the ending feel bad.
This is honestly one of the criticisms I dislike the most about Homestuck when people talk about the Ending, when people say that Hussie didn’t convey his intent, and trying to make the Ending more Meta is detrimental to the Story as a whole and what ‘got the fans there in the first place’, or the thought that somehow more Meta elements and actual Storytelling can’t coexist.
You can definitely not enjoy thinking deeper about a story! If you just want to check out something different and not dig deeper into the content, that’s absolutely okay! However, I’m sorry, but that is not the kind of story Homestuck is. This is a story that’s been acclaimed by the Fandom for its complexity and its weirdness, and now you’re telling me that the thing you dislike about the ending is that it’s weird and makes you think about the story? That’s paradoxical on its own. But let’s leave that behind. Whether you enjoy the more Meta aspect of stories or if you prefer a story one way or another, it’s all subjective. Let’s go to the main point here.
Hussie. Didn’t convey the kind of story it was? And it’s a disservice to the Fandom to have the Ending be something you have to dig in deeper to understand? Honestly, I don’t even know what to say about this, because this is not even like subjective opinion or disliking the ending, this is a complete misreading of the Canon, of the way the story Explicitly tells us how things work. You can interpret a lot of things in Homestuck in different ways- But you cannot say that there’s nothing to interpret and the Ending is bad because it pretends there is.
This is the story that the Author himself has called both a Creation Myth- Explicitly telling us the point of the story is a tale about Reality and living in this Reality, with explicit in-comic talk about the place people have in a Universe with Predetermination, Existential Struggles of just about everyone. This is the story the Author called “A story that is also a Puzzle”- Inviting us to read through the story while providing some deeper bits of lore we could piece together to get a wider image of what truly is behind Homestuck. This is a story where the Author himself is a Character- Miss me with the ‘not Meta’ stuff, Hussie is a character, explicitly, in-comic, that affects the story extremely directly. Jade escapes literally through the Fourth Wall. Caliborn takes over the literal narrative of the setting. Homestuck acknowledges itself as a story multiple times.
You can dislike this. You can absolutely dislike this, it’s a preference, but call it what it is, you just not enjoying this kind of story, or not enjoying the direction the narrative took in general compared to your expectations. The intent and symbolism of the comic is exposed, canonically, pretty blatantly, and even more blatantly by word-of-god with Hussie’s old Formspring and Tumblr answers, and I bet it will be even more blatant as the new Books with Commentary come out.
By blaming Hussie and the Comic on your general interest in the deeper themes of the narrative, you’re outright misinterpreting Authorial Intent in order to make you feel better about not understanding a story, and at the same time, refusing to even give it a second thought! You’ve reached the Ending, so I’m assuming this a story you enjoyed. If you enjoy it, do you really want to just walk bitterly away without giving it a chance?
That’s yet ANOTHER thing I don’t quite understand about this kind of criticism, and it is… Okay, you get to the Ending, and are disappointed that a lot of stuff you wanted to see happen didn’t happen, but- And this is not as true anymore, but back during the Act 7 Days, there was militant dislike about the Ending to the point of saying it ruined the rest of the story? It honestly feels extremely childish that an Open End to a story as complex as Homestuck could make you hate the entire story instead of wanting to know more about it, to see if you missed something else!
I sincerely do believe that a lot of people just dragged themselves through the Ending because it was an old Fandom they were in and they wanted to see how it ended, but just weren’t invested in the story anymore at that point, so they went in remembering and taking the shallow details, leaving the depth behind, and then were disappointed when their own lack of interest sabotaged their view of the comic.
Homestuck is dense, it is a Story with a ton of Symbolism and a lot of weird themes, but it’s also incredibly charming with its narrative and its characters. And for that, I am not saying that ‘You SHOULD enjoy the Ending, god dammit!’. I’m not saying that at all. As I’ve said multiple times, you can dislike Symbology in Stories, you can dislike the directions the Story took, you can dislike anything about the comic itself!
But do understand, when you give criticism of the Ending, try not to tangle actual criticism about the Story or the Narrative with Subjective Opinions. You can say you dislike how dark Blade Runner is, but you can’t say Blade Runner is a bad movie because it’s dark.
So if you don’t like Act 7, more power to you. But if you prefer to have something you apparently enjoy enough to have gone through it to the ending, ruined by your headcanons, and leave you bitter instead of seeing if there’s something more to the story or if there was something you missed, well. I feel that’s a little bit silly?
But whether you enjoy the Ending and want to dig deeper into the story and what actually happens in Homestuck, or you think I’m just a dumb fangirl reading too much into a dumb Webcomic and would like to tell me, feel free to send me an ask! I sincerely do enjoy debating about the Comic and what happens in it as long as it’s done in a civilized manner.
Are the Cherubs a universal sburb constant as well?
Aranea compares them to a the White Cells of the Universe, so it’s likely they’re just a species that pops up in every Universe from time to time, not necessarily a SBURB product, but a Universal Constant. Like John Cusack.
Both the Pages have reached their true potential! As for who the Pages are, they're both normal human beings
Yeah, it was a rhetorical question, there’s too many things to factor about the fight, straight up Classpect vs Classpect, same Skill Level, I have to go with a Draw.
... I know its not really important at all but one thing the ending really didn't explain at all and what was never brought up again and what I really wanna know is: What happened to Aranea after Condy gave her her just deserts? Did she double die and vanish, as if LE had blasted her? Or did she just normal die and go into the dream bubbles? But if so why didn't we see her again?
That is a good question, specially because her eyes turn white as she falls into the fire- Her ‘body’ was her Soul projected into the Bubbles, after all, brought to life by the Ring. Apparently Physical but still very much already Dead? I believe I talked about this before already, her being tossed into the fire is very reminiscent of a ‘Descent into Hell’, and she very much deserved getting offed. I don’t know what I headcanon personally, either her Soul wasn’t dragged to the Furthest Ring because she was already dead, or she popped back up in the Furthest Ring but was a bit too embarrassed about the whole ordeal to confront Meenah and Vriska.
how often are people gonna ask those general classpect fights questions until they realize that it ALWAYS comes down to the individuals behind those classpects?
Hey, people also often ask me about certain Classpects or topics I’ve already covered. There’s new people around here often, so I do answer the same questions or link to analysis I’ve done from time to time to point out I’ve already done a bunch of this stuff and serve as a refresher.
The ride’s never over. Seriously though, I feel I’m only barely scratching the surface of a lot of stuff I talk about, there’s so many references and things to find, and I’ve also been trying to get people to get into Homestuck! You should try it, watching them react, even if vicariously, is immensely satisfying!
Can a fully realised Maid of Void create... a World of Darkness zone where everything is "realistic" and nihilism is the only truth? And all game constructs are not working (like sylladex). Of course, it is a double-edged sword since the only thing a Maid can do in this field that's not strictly realistic is turning it off.
Huh, that’s a really interesting take, a nullifying zone where everything fantastical is a neat idea, and if there’s anyone who could Nullify things, that’d be a Void Player. I like that.
I think the thing that scares me most about Hiveswap is that it has the potential for some of the big lets players to play and show it, thus exposing Homestuck to a majority of the internet. If that blows up it could lead to ... *hushed whisper* mainstream Homestuck. Homestuck Movies
You’re saying that as if it’d be a BAD thing, honestly even if they produced an awful, live action Homestuck Movie, I would watch it simply because, honestly who wouldn’t watch that ironically.
Hey have you ever dived in to what the powers of a Rogue of Breath could be? How can they steal/redistribute direction/apathy/movement/breath? Or what would that look like? Just in speculative terms.
I talked about them here! As to how it would /look/, I mean, Vriska literally steals luck as a beam of energy coming from her eye and sort of has the Light Symbol replace her pupils. Aradia freezes people in time with Energy Cogs appearing around and the Zodiac Wheels. I’d say the more abstract uses of the Aspects are very much able to be interpreted any way. I’d imagine stealing Breath could be like, a sudden blue glow freezing someone on the spot, and blue wisps of wind coming from your feet when you’re using Breath Powers to go faster?
Okay but would this "World of Darkness" zone render immortal gt characters mortal? Would it render fantastic creatures normal? Would it insta-kill them, angels for example? Or would some of them be unable to enter the zone, to even ghasp its existence? By standarts of Paradox Space, such zone would be, undoubtely, the ultimate eldrich location.
If we’re going with the idea that it disallows the use of God Tier things, the Manifestations of Aspects may straight up be unable to enter or get shredded upon contact, since Aspect Energy is being dispersed. God Tier resurrection, I don’t think it would permanently stop it, but it may make resurrection impossible until the Area fades.
Bard of rage destroy with bullshit and destroys bullshit. they do the impossible just cuz they can bro, head sliced off? they're suddenly fine when you turn away. they can now breathe underwater despite their angry teammates trying to drown them. why? because BULLSHIT bro! they're destroying all the bullshit so now they can do the impossible. btw im speaking from experience :(
Pft. Not that much though, I’m pretty sure some rules still apply, like if you bisect a clown vertically, he’s not going to survive. They do have some bullshit moments at times.
I was wondering if you could talk a bit about potential powers for an heir of light or for the light aspect in general cause to me it seems like there is nothing tangible for light
I’ve already talked about the Heir of Light before, but I mean. Light is literally tangible Light. You can have Lasers and Hard Light Constructs.
I’ve seen you analyse characters such as Gamzee and his ridiculousness, Vriska and her...Vriska-ness, but have you done Eridan? Do you think he was a good character? I believe he deserved some form of redemption. He had killed lusii to help out his girlfriends’ destructive killing machine of a lusus. But yet described as terrible because he apparently didn’t care for his moirailligence. He is not solely a desperate jerk who throws fits. He’s just as important as everyone else to me.
Alright, let me start by saying that I like Eridan as a character, but I do despise the Amporas with all of my heart as people in general. So sorry if I tear him a new one right open, but this is my take on Eridan.
First of all, your ask ignores a big facet of Eridan’s Character and this is that he, literally, believes the Landwellers should be exterminated and has commissioned various Doomsday Devices that didn’t, thankfully, work, in order to commit Genocide on everyone living on the Land. Eridan did kill Lusii for Gl’bgolyb, but that was Scratch’s fault, not Feferi. Feferi, on the other hand, had to try and tone down his murderous tendencies. She defines this as draining enough that, once in the Session, she straight up breaks their Moirailship up because she doesn’t want to be paired with him, pale-ways. And very explicitly turns down his Red advances as well.
On top of that, the job to kill Lusii to feed Gl’bgolyb is what grants the title of the Orphaner- Like Dualscar. Chances are if Eridan wasn’t doing it, someone else would’ve taken his place, simply because Gl’bgolyb cannot be allowed to release the Vast Glub. So to begin with, their initial relationship, even if Eridan minded killing Lusii, would already be heavier for Feferi, and this is assuming Eridan even dislikes killing Lusii- I don’t quite remember if he ever stated he did, but with his Genocidal Tendencies, I wouldn’t be surprised if he didn’t.
Fast-forward to the Session and his feud with Sollux is so strong that it appears depicted in [S] Make Her Pay. Aside from the Terezi-Vriska-Aradia mess, this is the only Troll vs Troll fight we see in that flash, and Sollux implies they’ve fought a lot before, and he’s always won (Until Eridan gets the wand). This frames him as one of the most contentious and aggressive of the Trolls, and in his Land, his first instinct was to just murder the Angels, which leaves him stuck trying to destroy Aspect Manifestations that are extremely hard to kill, and left abandoned there by the rest of his team mates.
Fast forward to the Meteor, and the behavior he displays with Jade and Rose is pushy, demanding, and just assholeish in general. As far as I recall, there’s very few positive things said about Eridan, specially by the girls.
Finally, Kanaya: Return to the Core. The first thing he does when Kanaya states she’s going to bring the Matriorb to the Core of the Meteor, is state that every single Hope-related thing has to be run by him- Once again, stating his pushiness and superiority when it’s matters he wants to be informed about. And just like that, as the Prince he is, he single-handedly decides that the situation is absolutely Hopeless, so he’s going to give up, betraying everyone and going to work for Bec Noir, but he wants to give Feferi one last chance to join him- Not as a romantic advance, but because of, again, his air of superiority. He thinks she’s the only one worthy of tagging along with him and Bec Noir. Superiority, looking down upon his so-called friends, and once Feferi refuses to join him, Sollux attacks him because, at this point Eridan has claimed allegiance with the Unstoppable Demon and is going to doom all of them. So he KO’s Sollux, he kills Feferi, and then he turns to Kanaya- And he doesn’t have enough with killing Kanaya.
He eyes the Matriorb, and before tearing a hole through Kanaya’s abdomen, he blows the Matriorb.
He doesn’t accidentally hit it, he doesn’t destroy it for any other reason. In this moment he’s stating his ‘superiority’ over everyone else, and the ‘hopelessness’ of the situation.
He destroys the Matriorb because he can’t just leave with one KO and two Dead, he has to be THAT extra of an asshole and tear the Matriorb apart.
And SURE, yes, if things had looked brighter, if there was more Hope to their situation, it’s most likely he would’ve just been a dick, but not a murderous dick- But that one move about breaking the Matriorb apart, and the ‘everyone is going down’ attitude? He’s a blatant Genocidal Maniac, and I despise the kind of person he represents. But, he does a god damn good job at representing it.
My trollsona has a liger(a breed of a tiger and a lion) as a lusus. Ligers have light spots/stripes on their bodies. Is it ok to have a lusus with light grey spots on its body?
Yeah, I don’t see why not. I could even imagine they could be lightly tinted like their blood tone.
So, in Homestuck it is clearly seen that the higher is troll’s blood caste, the more violent they are. Do you think some trolls in the same class are more violent than others?
I mean this may be more of a Social Construct than an actual Biological Thing by Trolls. Some Classes like the Prince, the Thief or the Lord seem more easy to corrupt into doing wrong, but technically speaking, Classes don’t have an alignment, the people with those Classes do.
I just find it highly satisfying that there is a doomed timeline out there were he made it to Bec Noir and got shanked to death before he could even finish his proposal
This most certainly happened, as we all know Jack’s greeting move is a stab. And as Bec Noir, he uses Swords, not Knives.
What I find remarkable about Homestucks villains is that they all have at least one trait that makes them potentially relatable. Be it hatred against the system they're a part of, Sheer stubborn unwillingness to give up, or the desire to get back what you have lost.
Homestuck Villains are great honestly, and it’s also partly because in the end, Homestuck is a comedy. So you always get some silly facet of the villains or learn something about them that’s plain hilarious. I’d say the only character that breaks this mold, fittingly, is Alt Calliope.
No no I didn’t mean to dump her into Villain Territory, I meant more like she’s the only character at all that’s just serious, with no comic relief moments.
Considering that the Calliope who was destined to defeat Lord English was a different one than Ours, and since the two mirror each other in a lot of ways, I can see how it'd be possible that LE is a different Caliborn as well
Mhmm! The biggest thing about this theory though, is that Lord English Caliborn has the Ring of Void for some reason, and he claims that he seemed surprised by the Kids appearing, and by ARquius all of sudden, which is weird because Caliborn is just SEEING that at that moment through one of the screens and saying how weird it is that he’s surprised… So it’d make sense.
You laugh, but this is actually literally the thing that made me write about the Ending today. I don’t know how I feel about reposting this like this though, I may delete this post.
so are classes how you're supposed to grow as a person or something and aspects who you basically are? i'm not sure what they represent and because of this i cant decide on my class. if classpects challenge you/force you to face your issues then i am a bard of rage but if they are just what you want to be/personality then i am a knight of space/rage. help please
Classes and Aspects define both broad Personality Traits and at times, things to overcome. For example, Princes can be rather cocky and sure of their abilities, which can make them impose themselves on others. So cockier Princes will struggle trying to not be dicks. But they will still have that self-driven attitude. In the Class descriptions I gave, I exemplified both the lowest and highest points of the Classes for that reason.
idk if you can do this but could you edit the bard outfit to not have a codpiece and for the hat to be slightly more um. manuevrable
Yes, God Tier Outfits are all customizable. But.
WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO GET RID OF THAT TRANSFIXING CODPIECE? GOOD GOLLY GOSH, THAT HEFT IS ABSOLUTELY ENCHANTING ISN’T IT? THE WAY IT SWAYS WITH EVERY TWIST OF THE HIP! IT’S A ONE OF A KIND ACCESSORY ONLY THE TRUEST OF BARDS COULD HOPE TO WIELD.
Yeah I’m preempting the Codpiece Talk myself so none of y’all say anything.
Since the ending sequence of Homestuck in April 2017, and even well after the establishment of a canon aftermath for its main characters and the confirmation that there will be a further Epilogue, I’ve seen a sentiment among Homestuck bloggers and the Homestuck fandom that I find very frustrating, one that persists well into 2018.
The sentiment goes something like this:
“Homestuck is a meaningless work by a flippant, irreverent prankster (Andrew Hussie) who dropped his commitment to the story at the last second, and made fun of his fans for expecting there to be a meaningful ending. Furthermore, he continues to harm and belittle his fandom in the creation of Hiveswap, and only continues his work on Homestuck-related projects to exploit his audience.”
Not only is this idea wrong, I find it disingenuous at best, malicious at worst, and actively detrimental to an understanding of Homestuck as a work. While it comes from an understandable frame of mind - the feeling of disappointment many of us felt at the end of Homestuck’s pretty short and to-the-point Act 7 - it actively ignores the main reason *why* that ending came across as disappointing at first glance. Namely, it ignores the role serial storytelling - a necessity at that point in Homestuck’s existence - played in creating misleading impressions of where the story was going among fans. Furthermore, it completely ignores how well the story arc of Act 6 Homestuck generally works when taken as a whole.
It demonstrates a very shallow understanding of Andrew Hussie as a storyteller, conflating his in-story persona with the actuality of a creator who demonstrates nothing but work ethic and commitment to his creation.
It ignores what actually happened with Hiveswap, which is that despite a frankly horrific set of circumstances that nearly prevented it from being made, Hussie was nonetheless able to gather a small team to create a game studio that delivered on every promise it ever made to Kickstarter backers and created a pretty solid, fun, and novel adventure game, with more installments and a rich evolving mystery on the way.
Finally, this interpretation completely misunderstands the way the idea of narrative is being used in the ending of Homestuck, not as a cudgel to beat off fan desire for thematic completion, but as a tool for delivering a thematically powerful narrative that draws parallels between the specter of Lord English and the way stories themselves are used as tools of oppression.
Homestuck isn’t perfect, and neither is Andrew Hussie. But by and large, this popular perception of him is flat-out wrong, an exaggeration of whatever flaws he brought to the creation of Homestuck, and contributes to a misunderstanding of its ending. Indeed, I’d argue it is, in some ways, part of why Homestuck has rarely been acknowledged as a significant work of art. To understand why Homestuck is important, first we need to be able to acknowledge what it achieved.
Here’s a daring notion: overall, Homestuck was and is pretty damn good.
The problem when you talk about Eridan is that you always envision him as Feferi would. Yes, he was draining Feferi, but if Feferi held on until he entered his player planet, I'm sure he'd be less of a jerk than he was in Homestuck. He's frustrated, frustrated that his moirail, Feferi, DUMPED for a lowblood (Sollux). And all that pent-up anger resulted in him decimating everyone in the lab, even the matriorb because he was blinded with anger.
This is true, but consider:
You do not have to bend for a relationship that only causes you discomfort if you could simply walk away from it.
I talk about Eridan the way Feferi would, and the way others would, rather than from his own perspective, because Eridan is showcased as a Toxic and Draining person to be with, and I have friends who have been stuck with awful people that reflect many of Eridan’s traits.
Sure, Feferi could have prevented him from going Murderous if she had stuck to him! But why would she have to stick with someone that drains her like that for HIS sake? It’s not HER fault that he’s prone to be a genocidal asshole. And Homestuck puts a great deal on doing what you want to do without stepping over other people’s will and agency. Sticking with him for her sake is being stuck in an abusive relationship, and I, personally, am glad Feferi simply dropped the ball the moment she was able to, and got together with someone she was actually happy and comfortable with.
As for the submission you sent me about Eridan- Not posting it because it’s basically a copy-paste of another post, it is true that Eridan is an excellent Marksman, he’s got brawn, he’s got wits, but the way he uses them is to abuse a position of power over others. It’s toxic domination and demands that belittle others. And that’s the kind of person I regard as a Villain and always will.
Your piece about Act 7 and the ending! Fantastic! It's possibly the most in-depth and logical analysis that I've seen, and as someone who genuinely enjoyed the conclusion, just. Thank.
You should also check the other post I just reblogged, a friend made a similarly long post about why Homestuck is Good and it drives some points I didn’t touch upon because my post was already way too long!
So would a session of just void players just be unviewable? They all keep blocking out the view ports with their voidyness
I mean, a single Void Player made the Alpha Session unviewable, or perhaps it’s the fact it was a ‘Void Session’? It doesn’t take much to black out the view ports.
What is, in your opinion, the least-explored or least-represented Aspect in Homestuck? I'd say Blood personally. I mean, I can understand what the aspect means in a general sense, but I feel due to its inevitable nature of being the "relationships and blood bonds" aspect, its one we will just never see some of the other potential usages of.
I would say Karkat is featured as a rather prominent Hero of Blood with a lot of ties to Blood and actual talk about what Blood meant for him and what it turned out to be for him and his role and purpose. I would say Doom may be the least explored one, character-wise at least.
Eridan is undeniably a worst kind of bastard (after his ancestor). But he still has some hilarious aspects to hum tho. The closest thing he has hor friends? Most of them are land dweller. In fact, he barely spends time with other aquatic trolls. Or in water. Kanaya is another can of worms - for the longest time she was the only troll to whom he actually listened (we don't count Karkat for reasons). Him betraying her (was planned befor murder of fef) thus becomes even worse.
As I said, I do quite love Eridan’s character, which doesn’t mean he’s not awful. Kanaya being the Mom Friend to Eridan and making him a Wand to shut him up, then using that moment as a little snarky jab at Rose saying she’s been ‘training a powerful wizard to take her down’ is all kinds of hilarious.
