id argue knights lack their aspect. or at least their session lacks it. beta kids only had 24 hours in their session, post scratch trolls all wanted to kill each other. not sure how the prescratch trolls would factor into this w latula, but there's evidence to show part of the knights challenge is to overcome a lacking in their aspect
I’ve shown doubt about this theory before, I don’t know I guess I’m stubborn and I don’t exactly like the idea of a Class existing determining a good chunk of the Session- Or the Session’s condition determining someone’s overall personality. Honestly with his Time Loops Dave was the one with the most Time of all of the Kids and definitely served it left and right helping Jade and Rose with anything they needed. Similarly, Karkat is very much tied to Blood rather than lacking it at any point. I also feel I dislike the theory of the Session lacking the Aspect of the Knight because it downplays how good friends most of the Trolls actually were? There was a lot of weirdness and strife because of some of them- Aradia becoming more aggressive in the Session, Vriska’s schemes, Eridan in general, Gamzee snapping. And most of this became more notable after they had already lost, not before. Eridan fought Sollux a couple of times through the game, Aradia smacked the SHIT out of Vriska, and also had a weird relationship with Equius, Vriska was an asshole to Tavros, but other than that they were a relatively stable as a group.
If Scratch is omniscient, then English must also be, right?
Technically yes, although I tend to consider English himself an arguably more destructive force and less of a… Smart guy? More Caliborn than ARquius. He does know stuff but doesn’t necessarily apply the knowledge as much as Scratch does.
Hey, Callie HERSELF didn't become the black hole. She made the Sun implode into the hole, like stars naturally do. Then Callie was probably sucked into it, being Dead and Doomed.
Thanks Tumblr, for forcing me to resize the first Gif so it didn’t freeze.
But, when Calliope Conducts the Ending, she encircles herself in a sphere with the Space Symbol, and collapses it onto herself, tearing a Black Hole where she is and beginning to absorb the Green Sun. It’s only AFTER the entirety of it has been absorbed that the Black Hole increases dramatically in size and begins to tear everything apart.
I feel like the previous anons theory about knights and sessions lacking the aspect holds weight, because as he said daves session had a lack of time, with the reckoning happening in one day, with karkat session having a unity issue in keeping everyone together (think, they all feel into infighting, in most cases literal fighting, on the meteor), and latulas session lacked any logical thinking with the group being a bunch of teen drama, that's my thought on it
It does hold weight! But again, as I have stated, it’s not something I personally necessarily believe is 100% necessary for a Knight to exist? Specially, as you said, because the biggest unity issues from the Troll Session came after the Session was already done, in the Meteor.
Wait, if Gamzee did die in the Game Over timeline, why don't we see his ghost? It couldn't have been retconned out of existence when John fixed the timeline because Vriska's Game Over ghost stayed in the dream bubbles with Meenah, even after the timeline was fixed.
There’s a few things to have in mind about Gamzee’s Timeline weirdness. One is my working theory that Ghosts only happen when there’s a deviation of character, which with Gamzee, it’d favor his Alpha Timeline ghost, except his spirit becomes trapped in Lil Cal so it never actually goes to the Bubbles in any form. It’s… A weird theory not based in canon events so, yeah. Another is that because his Soul is absorbed into Lil Cal, it sort of nullifies his Ghosts somehow? As part of English? With Equius and Dirk being exceptions because ARquius is an entity separate from them, even if made of the two. Yet another theory could be that there ARE Gamzee Ghosts in the Bubbles, we’ve just never seen any of them because they’re all, I don’t know. Clowning around in the very same Bubble, isolated.
Gamzee’s lack of ghosts is very weird, and I don’t think there’s quite a simple explanation we can infer from the text, or maybe there is and we just missed it, no idea. Furthermore, we KNOW Game Over characters did go to the Bubbles thanks to Terezi Remem8er! So he should be there, but isn’t. Is he maybe his own Dream Self instead of his normal self? Dream Selves are the exception when it comes to Doomed Timelines, they ‘exist outside the continuum of normal time’ as Dave mentioned, and once Doomed Rose’s Dreamself went to sleep, she merged with the Alpha, implying there’s only one Instance of the Dream Self with a Soul, the one from the Alpha Timeline. But this would only raise even MORE problems- If Gamzee were his own Dream Self, and his Normal Self died, then that normal Self should have a Ghost somewhere! If he doesn’t, then that would also mean Gamzee has a living body somewhere we don’t know about.
It’s. A really weird conundrum, fitting for a Rage player.
you make a good point that a majority of the troll chaos happens post session, but at the same time i dont think they would have worked so cohesively and efficiently without karkat being "so loud and annoying and o8sessed with leadership" (005368). actually that whole dialogue between vriska and john is eye opening to me about the specific issues the trolls session had vis a vis blood (1 of 2)
vriska says of karkat’s leadership abilities “It wasn’t natural! Pretty fitting, really, since he’s kind of a freak himself. He’s not even on the hemospectrum, the weirdo” (005368), which links both to aggressive nature of trolls and karkats literal blood. i read this as vriska saying trolls arent supposed to have strong bonds (blood aspect) with each other, so karkat was weird for both being so good at making those bonds (blood aspect) and his literal blood color (i lied this is 2 of 3 sorry)
i do agree w you though, the idea that having a knight will determine a large part of the session seems like it places a little too much importance on the knight as a hero, though i think the same thing happens with the space aspect? your comment about dave got me thinking though. dave certainly had more literal time than anyone else cause of his loops, but the reason he made so many was to get $ quick enough to boost everyone else up. could the knights role be to fill in what the group lacks?
I mean, the Knight’s role literally is to give their Aspect, so of course the Knight of Blood would strengthen the bonds, and the Knight of Time would boost everyone and get things done quicker. Of course if there was already an overabundance of their Aspect, their role would become sort of… Useless, but given even in Sessions where there’s an average amount of whatever they provide, they’d give more, it feels like you could make a case for that at any point.
Also one of Vriska’s main points of character development before dying, was starting to feel the guilt for killing Tavros, much like Terezi’s guilt for killing Vriska later on. She does have the socially indoctrinated idea they’re supposed to be ruthless and violent, but truth is they do care.
Why is so much importance placed on the space player?
Without a Space Player you get no Frogs. With no Frogs, you can’t create an Universe, which is, you know, the point of the game. So you get stuck in an unwinnable Session, to either Die at some point, or become stuck there.
No I think jujus in general hyper-boosts one's aspect. When John touched the house juju, he became completely detached from the story (Breath) and Jane made half of LOCAH alive upon her Trickster Blast off (Life)
Some Jujus do work that way! But not all of them, I mean, the Resurrection Clock, the Crowbar, Lil Cal and the Rings are all Jujus as well.
I think all Jujus tie into the aspects though. Lil Cal is a Heart vessel, the resurrection clock gives Life, the the Crowbar voids magical powers usw
Some of them are a little bit obtuse though, and with that being true the Sucker and the Ring of Life would also overlap with Life. Not to say- The Clock doesn’t just ‘Give Life’, the glowing God Tier bullshit is described as what permeates Eternity Itself, it’s like, Everything more than just one Aspect? And if it was just one Aspect I’d have to tie it to Time rather than Life.
Knights give their aspect? Was that in Calliope's monologue about classes? I thought it was Maids and Rogues who do that.
Hoo boy, if you want to follow the Classpect Discussion here, you should check the link on my sidebar going to my Class Quiz, with like, Class Descriptions for my Theories linked there too. Or just click this link.
yeah you're right about the trolls actually caring, but they certainly don't act like it. vriska and terezi both have revelations about the ideology of violence theyve been spoonfed, but at the same time, these revelations come AFTER the trolls we know have engaged in those violent activities. id argue that the disconnect between thought and action there
(whoops I sent that early) results in a lacking of blood. but yeah, the trolls aren’t inherently violent, but rather inherently disconnected from each other. also out of the two knight sessions weve actually seen both of them show a lacking of some sort of their aspects. you’re right that other sessions might be different, but we don’t see any other sessions.
Yeah, there’s some disconnect there, but it comes back to what I meant- It’s notable because of the scale at which it happens in the comic, but in a Session that lasted a bunch of weeks, there wasn’t actually that much internal strife. Aradia got violent after robotifying, and even then she was more cold and calculating than outright destructive for anyone else other than Vriska. Tavros didn’t really bother anyone, and while Vriska’s relationship with him is really abusive because she’s just Extra, she was also trying to help him and build a relationship with him in her own fucked up way. Sollux got in strifes with Eridan because Eridan is a dick, and otherwise didn’t seem to really want to harm anyone. Karkat coordinated them with Jack to plan the Queen’s downfall. Nepeta gets along with the others. Kanaya gets along with the others, except Vriska after she she sees her smooching Tavros. Terezi’s main issue is with Vriska, and even then inside of the Session they didn’t really seem to interact much as far as we saw, she only smacked her Dreamself once. Vriska is… Well, Vriska. Equius never actually hurt anyone, even if he’s a bit of a Casteist dick. Gamzee was high the entire session. Eridan was mostly occupied with his Angels and only occasionally strifing with Sollux. And Feferi also wanted them all to get along.
In fact you know what I’ve just realized listing this.
The Troll Session was, in fact, very united.
It was just Vriska. She was the main source of conflict.
With Eridan being there second. Everyone else seems to be in good or neutral terms with each other.
I guess, again, it comes down to me seeing the Trolls a bit more united than the Knight theory gives them credit for? It’s stubbornness, really.
if whatpumpkin were to come out and reveal the canon class system, and your current understanding of classes were to turn out as totally false, what would you do?
I’d love it, PLEASE hit me like a brick with that shit, I want to understand how Hussie thinks about the Classes, and I’m almost certain there’s something I’m not quite getting or I’m missing. Hell before my current theories I believed Heir-Maid and Witch-Sylph to be a pair. My current understanding is more taken from canon examples of stuff and comparing characters to each other and their arcs, so altering my perception of the Classes would mean a new way of seeing the Characters, and more exploration about how the story presents them!
I think another reason Artist Caliborn can't be LE is that if he was, then that'd mean basically all possible different timeline Caliborns would become LEs, which can't be, cause there is only one.
I mean, not necessarily, it’d just mean he got surprised about something he already knew about and there wouldn’t be another Caliborn Timeline where he becomes LE. Hell we don’t even know if there IS another Caliborn Timeline aside from these theorized two, for all we know there’s only 1-2 Timelines where Caliborn is around. Contrary to popular belief, every single possible action ever and up to eternity doesn’t quite happen in Homestuck.
Caliborn is around in all timelines that Calliope was in, and won in all but one of those. We already know there are multiple.
I mean. We also know just two Calliopes, and one of them predominated the proper way and most likely extinguished his Soul rather than killing him so, that still narrows it down to just ‘1 Caliborn’.
I think the Masterpiece Caliborn is the same as the one who becomes Lord English. We know that SBAHJ is a form of subversive media used against HIC's rule, and my theory is that it works by mocking Caliborn's DeviantArt phase, a phase which he would like to forget. The Condesce probably doesn't like being reminded about how much of a tool her boss is, either. Caliborn just -acts- surprised when the heroes show up to kill him, because failure to do so would cause an unstable time loop.
I mean, Caliborn is the Lord of Time, he doesn’t bend to the Time Loops of the Alpha Timeline, the Timeline bends to him to form Loops that favor him, which is why him being forced to act surprised doesn’t quite cut it for me. Also, SBaHJ is just Dave’s style- Rose uses lengthy prose to the same effect, and they’re jabs at Condy, not English.
So I heard that the universe the kids made is where caliborn is born. Even though the entire point of sburb is to make a new universe? Or is that due to time shenanigans? I would think that making a NEW universe would include new timelines as well? (Forgive me if I asked this question before)
Not quite sure what do you mean about ‘new timelines as well’? It’s just like how the Trolls created the Human Universe, the Alpha kids then created the C Universe, which is where Earth C is, and where eventually, Calliope and Caliborn will be born.
On the topic of Universe C, how likely do you think it is that it's the same universe as A1? I personally like the elegance of that theory, and since we know that Universe C has trolls, there's some evidence. Or else trolls, humans, cherubs etc. could just be multiversal constants that will always eventually develop in a universe.
Nope, it was a 48-Player Session that made the Troll Universe, can’t be Universe C.
Do sprites known about their player's life and what they thought in the past?
Sprites seem to know whatever they knew about their Players before being Prototyped, as well as just general stuff about their role and quest in the future, but not necessarily their past.
thats a good point, i wasnt taking the timescale of the trolls' session into account. hmm... now im more interested in seeing other examples from alternian society. i wonder if the trolls we met were outliers in their cooperativeness, or if the violent ideology imposed on them is really a big fake out. which is to say: most trolls bad but not ours? or... all trolls... good...
Yo, I just had this crazy-ass theory! What if the Equius we see in the masterpiece is actually a projection of him made real by Jake? I mean, it would explain why he's all of a sudden there.
ARquius, and I mean that doesn’t quite make much sense? From the standpoint of Jake barely even acknowledging ARquius as far as I recall, if it was Dirk that ended there, I could see that, but ARquius, yeah.
I'm sorry if it's just a misunderstanding on my part, but why are are you calling the Earth of the credits "Earth C" ? I thought it was the Earth from universe B2. Is it just a way of calling Earth to avoid confusion or did I miss something ?
Out of curiosity how do we know it was a 48 player session that made the alpha troll universe?
Hussie joked that the Session that made the Troll Universe were 48 Squiddles, but while the canonicity of this is dubious, the fact is, Alternia does have 48 Zodiac Signs.
If pages are served their aspect, or serve themselves selfishly, then why did Grandpa "serve" humanity sburb ? What's your opinion on it ?
Like most stuff with the Passive/Active Dichotomy, things flip from one side to the other from times, so Grandpa serving SBURB to the world is fitting thematically. That being said, in doing so, he’s also basically dooming all of Humanity to a meteoric death in the first place, even if it was predestined. It’s a bit difficult to say, what is selfish, what is selfless, what his intention was, because Grandpa is a weird individual. Specially because, also? That’s ASSUMING it was his idea to spread it around. Remember, Grandpa is dead by the time Homestuck starts, by several years. For all we know, he was only studying the code before dying, and then someone took up on the task to finish SBURB and spread it.
Tagoras quirk would be the most complicated so the player loses trying to read it
Given the general idea got from Tagora’s pose in the Troll Card silhouette, what if his Quirk is speaking lowercase except for the syllables “DO” “IT” “TO” “EM”.
I'm still wondering how Sn0wman is tied to the universe, and by that I mean killing her also results the death of the Genesis Frog
It seems to be a power granted by Doc Scratch. By the blue blood and the fact the Universe was visible within her beating heart, I’d argue Scratch either linked her Heart to the Genesis Frog’s Heart, or literally replaced it with it.
i'm voidbound and prospit, which initially made me feel bad because i thought aspects were linked to lunar sway, but i realized that can't be the case, since feferi is a derse dreamer and jane is a prospit dreamer despite both being lifebound!
Yeah, I honestly didn’t even know people headcanoned Aspects to be Moon-bound.
I think the headcanon about aspects being bound to certain moons was because all space players we have seen are prospit bound and all time players are derse bound
That is true, and those two being sort of rather relevant Aspects to SBURB, I could see the headcanon, but not ALL Aspects! Like, Rose’s Light and Derse, Vriska’s Light and Prospit. Eridan is Hope and Derse, Jake’s Hope and Prospit.
Isn't that funny that the Dancestor's themes in the Beforus album only have the respective zodiac at the beginning of the song title only and the Ancestor's themes in the Ancestral album haves the respective are both at the beginning and at the end of the song title. [♍- Let Me Dance, Let Me Glisten] and [♏Spider's Eclipse♏]
I'm spacebound and a derse dreamer. This has been consistent for me for a long time. I hadn't considered that aspects could determine dream type. Is that conon or??
Honestly, aspects being moon-based is just as stupid as classes being gender-exclusive. If that can be dsisproved then why can't gender-exclusive be too in the future Class test?
Yeah it’s dumb, a lot of what makes SBURB SBURB is the fact it allows for a lot of flexibility and like, extreme customization of everything. Restricting the customization based on Gender or Dreaming Moon goes against SBURB itself.
Honestly the most unrealistic thing about Homestuck is that the dream bubbles didn't desolve into giant orgys eons ago. These are teenagers trapped forever in their teenagerism for all of eternity.
Ok so, I have some characters from something and I just realized that I can classpect them. So now I’m trying to draw them in god their pyjamas, but I’ve just found out that pants don’t really work with how their legs are built. Any suggestions on what could be done?
Without knowing exactly how their legs are built I can’t exactly offer advice, but I guess… When in doubt shift the pants to be shorter, or make them into a skirt?
Does each session have their own dream bubbles? Like if me and my friends made a session, would we see the homestuck cast, or just versions of us?
Dream Bubbles are fun to toy around in Fan Sessions and in Fan stuff because they’re just such a versatile tool, and there’s no shame in using them for Crossovers and such!
Sadly, though?
If we’re talking canonically, the Bubbles are something Feferi got the Horrorterrors to do, and seem exclusive to the Homestuck cast.
I MEAN technically speaking if you flew into the Furthest Ring, you WOULD likely bump into these bubbles, as you, physically. But dreaming and having your Soul in them, is canonically dubious.
Could any Life player outside of the Seer, Mage, and Heir class potentially make sometime similar to the dream bubbles (provided horrorterror assistance)?
In a way, you could make a case for almost every Life Player, if not all of them, but the main thing here is having someone actually able to commune with the Horrorterrors. Feferi was a Fuchsia Heiress to Alternia, with an Emissary of the Horrorterrors as her Lusus, provided by Doc Scratch, those circumstances are INCREDIBLY specific.
do you think someone who's "character arc" revolves around an identity crisis could be void-bound? while heart is the more obvious aspect in this sense, i think void would work too, being linked to confusion and all.
I’m pretty sure anyone can have an Identity Crisis. Pretty sure we see several characters of different Aspects go through one, in different ways too.
Prince of Time being lazy asshole and just skipping to the time where they did finish their work.
Lmao, and accidentally forgetting it’s the Thief that can pull that off, instead they just destroy the time between now and when they would’ve finished their work, but haven’t actually gotten it done, so they have even LESS time to do it.
