I thought the extra time Dave played amounted to three days, not weeks?
Three days was what he had been doing with Terezi, however Kanaya tells Jade that…
It’s hard to say how long Karkat and Kanaya spent Frog Breeding, since they had already exiled the Queen by then, so it may have been like, just half of their campaign? Even then they still cut it extremely close and didn’t even finish it properly. The Kids have less than 24 hours when the Frog Breeding commences, implying Dave did indeed spend several weeks going back and forth just getting Frogs.
Are Prospitians allowed to go to Derse and are Dersites allowed to go to Prospit?
CD seems to have no problem going around Prospit, even though he has a huge absurd hat, but he could’ve just managed to sneak around. PM is fine on Derse as long as she carries a parking citation. In fact PM was totally alright meeting up with the Black Queen, she just pointed her towards Jack.
I'm sorry to ask this, I know it's homestuck 101, but why are the beta kids the betas if they came first? And which trolls are the beta trolls and why?
They’re the Beta Kids, literally, because of SBURB being a Beta. It’s not ‘Alpha and Beta’ as First and Second, it’s the Alpha and the Beta versions of the game.
As for the Trolls, Karkat’s group came first. It’s implied as such that Karkat believed the other group of Trolls was redundant, meaning that Karkat’s group was the original, cloned from themselves, and the Ancestors/Dancestors are their genetic offspring.
Let me take this moment to comment, however, that the Ectobiology Machinery in Karkat’s Laboratory has 24 vials for Ectoslime. Given that he doesn’t believe in Ancestors until he SEES the Dancestors, they couldn’t all be clones, which means… The Ectobiology machinery accounts for both Love and Hate Genetic Material.
What if you alchemized the black and white queen rings? And what about if you alchemized two different wq rings?
Given what we know about Juju Rules, and given the Rings of Life and Void are suspiciously equated to the Queens’ rings from the Alpha Session, the originals are likely to disappear once new ones are alchemized.
Also, Jane alchemizes her fork with WK’s Sceptre, so imagine a similar thing but with whatever properties the Magic Rings may have. I bet you could mix the Black Queen’s Ring with a Whipkind Weapon to make the Red Miles Whip.
So the dancestors are both love AND hate babies at the same time?
I mean, yes, most likely outcomes is that the Love and Hate genetic material of every Prospit Troll was dumped into the same vat, and then mixed to produce 6 different variables, then repeated for the Derse Trolls. No neat ‘Karkat + Terezi = Latula’ mixes or anything like that, just, true to life Troll Genetic Slurry.
what exactly made the beta kids use the tumor and scratch? isn’t that used only when your session is in danger of failing?
The Tumor is a bomb that spawns in all Sessions as an EXTRA hard Time Limit, in case the Reckoning doesn’t happen or it happens and you’re still sort of there in the Session doing nothing. It’s only meant to be a local and relatively reduced explosion, BUT given the Kids’ Universe was Cancerous, and the sequence of events leading up to its detonation, their specific Tumor pretty much took both Troll and Human Universes and collapsed them into the Green Sun. Rose, not knowing what was going to actually happen, was tricked into thinking it would blow up the Green Sun, which is why they even sent it out into the Furthest Ring in the first place.
The Scratch, though, yeah it’s a reset button for when the Session is totally fucked up. Which the Kids’ Session is. Jack is just like. Murdering everything, and if they hadn’t Scratched, he would have kept on killing them all until there was only Jade, at which point CD would’ve killed her regardless.
How does troll slurry even work to determine blod color and such? I mean i remember in comic it is stated that there 'dominant genes' and it might have been implied that highblood genes are the dominant ones but how does that explain the higher number of lowbloods? Wouldnt it then be more logical that lowblood genes are more dominant? I am confusion
I don’t think it’s said that the Highblood genes are dominant, but for Blood Color it would make sense that the lowblood genes would be dominant. However- That would mean Fuchsias could ONLY be born from two Fuchsias’ genetic slurry and that likely doesn’t seem to be the case? Let’s be honest for a second, Hussie likely didn’t give it that much thought, but from a biological standpoint, it’s likely Lowblood caste genes are FAVORED but not EXCLUSIVELY dominant. I’m sure there’s something like that written down in my old biology textbooks.
(sorry if this has been answered before) is there only one mothergrub for all of Alternia or are there multiple?
It’s possible there are Multiple, and there’s at the very least ‘Virgin Mother Grubs’ to take her place were the main one to die, but the comic sort of implies there being only one of them.
Other than that I wish I could say I have some headcanons but like. Most of the ones I have are totally canon. Bi Dave. Most Trolls being Pan. Aro/Ace Jake. Davepeta. It’s kind of refreshing not having to headcanon them, but actually know in Canon.
Well a lot of people say Dave’s gay instead of bi and it was heteronormativity/internalized homophobia that made him want to be with girls I guess so he might be bi or gay
He pretty much explicitly mentions his attraction for both John AND Jade during his heart-to-heart to Dirk, even if there was compulsory heteronormativity to some extent, he most definitely seems to be bi. Also, don’t get me started on his obvious Mommy Kink.
I've seen the Roxy is trans headcanon for a while is there any proof.
Given the last two letters of her name are ‘XY’, when her full name was finally revealed Hussie mentioned the last two ‘Chromosomal Letters’ or something like that had been finally unveiled, which some took as Rox being trans. Some trans people too have identified a lot with Rox’s struggles, too. I’m sure there may be more stuff but nothing specifically, canonically obvious, sadly. Still a great headcanon. As is all Strilondes being trans. And the Harleyberts. And everyone tbh, all headcanons are so valid.
I think Hussie mentioned smthg (b4 we meet the alpha kids) about all the human girls' chumhandles being 2 identical letters to represent the XX chromosomes but Roxy is the only human girl not following this rule so she could b trans
Sadly, that’s a genetic mix-up, what he said was that all the Humans and Troll handles are made up with the 4 DNA letters, GCAT. That being said, Roxy and Dave, popularly headcanoned trans, are both [TG], and Roxy and Dirk break the pattern of human girls having the same letters [TT, GG, GG, TG], and the boys having different letters [EB/GT,TG,GT,TT].
So karkat doesn't believe in the ancestors even though he made them. How does that make them not clones? Wouldn't he know about them regardless of whether they were clones or not? I thought that the main trolls were paradox clones of themselves and the beforus trolls were somehow love or hate babies of the others (devided by prospit/derse)
See, the way Ectobiology works is that you have to track down the clones, copy them, and then they mix and create the other set of babies. John had it easy because Mom had already locked the targets, but Karkat would have to track his group down through the screens, get the Ectoslime and create themselves. However, Karkat doesn’t believe in the Ancestors- Which means he cannot have cloned them, because otherwise he would’ve SEEN them on the screens, in the past of Alternia, their adventures and lives! Given he thinks it’s just a ‘random set of extra wigglers’, it’s only possible for Karkat’s Group to be a bunch of clones of themselves, and Meenah’s Group to be their genetic offspring.
so based off of hiveswap, we can determine that a psionic's powers come from the eyes, right? but being blinded doesn't damage it? gouging does, though? how's that work
Well, when Sollux used his Psionics while blind, his body died from the exertion of propelling the Meteor. Cirava says they gouged their eye out, but that does not explain the yellow scars on their face! It seems likely that Psionics don’t come from the eyes, but rather they’re channelled through- And without an eye or blinded, the Psionic Discharge is uncontrolled enough to harm the brain. Therefor, it’s not that Cirava is unable to use their Psionics- Is that using them would literally fry their brain. That’s my Headcanon at least.
Considering that Karkat's session is post-scratch, it makes sense that the alpha trolls are their genetic offspring (I think Aranea outright says that her genes are primarily from Vriska and Terezi, so).
I don’t think there’s any rule that necessarily says Pre or Post Scratch must be the clones/offspring.
Yeah i’ve always thought since Cirava’s route that psionics have their powers connected to their brain, so when they gouged out their eye, it broke their psionic circuitry, so their powers won’t be very stable, or effective at all. Like a wire that’s been cut.
‘A wire that’s been cut’ sounds like a good way to describe it. Faulty, but not completely removed, may catch on fire if you let it do its thing.
In Caliborn's masterpiece, Jake lands the final killing blow on Lord English when he fires up the ol hope engines. I'm guessing that was him becoming a fully realized page of hope? What do you think tavros could do as a page of breath?
I mean he didn’t land the ‘Killing Blow’ because Caliborn can’t be killed at that point so Dirk had to seal him later. But yes it was the “HOLY SHIT, HERE I AM, LAYING ON THE GROUND, DEFEATED AGAIN” blow.
As for Tavros, eh. Something big and windy, sure, but part of the Page’s powerset is, in fact, on how they make people follow them, and Tavros getting the Ghost Army together in the end is pretty much the most miraculous Act he could’ve pulled off towards the end.
I want to believe that the beforus trolls are a mixture of the post scratch trolls and I want to know who got mixed with who
Again, there’s no defined mixes. I don’t think that’s not how Troll Genetics works, they just dump all of the genetic material together into a Prospit and Derse slurry, and the things that predominate on each Dancestor are traits from the Troll of the same caste- Aradia for Damara, Sollux for Mituna and such.
I really want to read vrisky business but I can't seem to find where to read paradox space book 2 online or even what comics would be in that book
I once FOUND the ending and it’s completely amazing but I don’t have a link handy. I think if you check Minda’s Liveblog, he had someone send him an Imgur album with it?
Can you subtract things through alchemizing? I have a nice pokeball mug I can use...
John does this in canon! But it’s an extremely complex process. To subtract the mug from the Pokeball Mug, you’ll need a normal mug, and deduction skills. It may also be impossible for you to do so if you’re unlucky. Okay let’s use this example. You have a captcha card for the Normal Mug that looks like…
Now, there’s two ways to combine Captcha Cards. || takes the hole patterns from both Cards, it’s basically punching a pattern of holes over an already punched card. && only takes the hole patterns that appear on both cards. So, say that your Pokemon Mug Card looks like this:
What we do here is overlap the cards.
The red holes are the holes that coincide on both cards- And you may, in fact, notice, that all of the holes in the Normal Mug card appear on the Pokeball Mug card. So what do we do here?
Whatever the code for the Pokeball Card is, it’s going to have ALL of the Punched Holes in black on it. However, it may have ANY of the ones in red. Given there’s 15 holes in red, there’s a total of 2^15, or 32768 combinations of punched holes that could produce a functional Pokeball.
Now, however, imagine that your Pokeball Mug Card looks like…
What you do, is overlap the cards again. However, this time…
In the previous example, the red represented the punched holes that overlapped on both cards. It was an obvious case of a || combination. However, as we see here, the red represents the holes from the Normal Mug card that do NOT appear on the Pokeball Mug card! What this means, is that this is an && Combination, and the Pokeball Card will have ALL of the holes that appear on the Pokeball Mug card, NONE of the ones that appear in red, and ANY of the non-punched spaces. Given these parameters, there’s a total of 2^33 possible combinations of holes that could give us the Pokeball, or a whopping 8589934592.
As you may have noticed, there’s no WAY you’re going to be parsing through these unless you upgarde the Alchemiter to have some sort of items separator program installed through Punch Card Shunts. However, it could be the case that the specific combination you’re looking for would be feasible. For example, John extracted the Harlequin Components from his Defaced Poster because he was lucky and noticed there were only like, 4 possible combinations that could create a clean Poster.
You’re better off just combining a baseball with a Copy of Pokemon Red/Blue and making it from scratch.
could a strong enough space player just shrink the red miles into something that's not a threat?
The Red Miles always have a source. Just take down the Source, not the Red Miles themselves. If they’re something like DD’s Red Miles on Derse it’d be easy to shrink them back. But if they’re Jack Noir’s on the Universe, it’s like. Spanning millions of light years. You’re not going to get them. Just get him.
Note that he says this during an extreme moment of self-doubt when Tavros of all people is trying to cheer him up, so it’s possible he’s going too far with his consideration of his self, specially since he seems to want to run away from even friendship to not have to deal with the awkwardness- However he does seem comforted by the idea of finding his identity somewhere not shaped by romantic or sexual motivations, and empowered by just doing his own thing.
so how the hell was dad able to literally punch through a stone prison wall on derse? weak walls? DADPOWERS? and then sock hearts? does dad actually have some sort of special power or was that all just for the show
Oh! I just saw the scene with Tavros in the Dream Bubble with Dave and Aradia, and I can see why people would think Bronzes may be able to use Pyrokinesis! He’s holding two fireballs- But they’re more of a literal silly tease about him packing some SICK FIRES to burn Dave with. It would be weird if Bronzes did have Pyrokinesis in the end, because you’d think if Tavros was able to set things on fire he would have at like. Any point in his adventure.
He calls himself nonrom sansplat, seems like he is even denying himself platonic relationships too. So he could be just saying those things and not really mean it. But I choose to believe he was. I think that's what hussie was trying to say. That Jake is aroace (or at the very least, aro) and doesn't know the word for it.
Yeah that’s exactly what he was implying, but indeed, he’s confused and scared and kind of in a pretty messed up place at that point? We know he makes up with Dirk afterwards, so whether he still embraced being aro, ace, both, or neither, well.
Speaking of the epilogue any news on that? What was the last epilogue related update we got anyways?
Last update on the Epilogue was Hussie saying that, given the Viz Partnership, he was looking forward to doing something interesting and new for the Epilogue. Given they’re taking charge in the maintenance of the website and translating stuff to HTML, it’s possible we hear about stuff relatively soon. Hussie predicted to have more news about it this year, but you know how it is. Specially with WP’s current situation.
Are there two lil cals? I know dirk's is empty, and that's how he seals Lord english's soul. Oh god the lil cal timeline is so convoluted and confusing what even happened
We literally see a timeline of what happens in Mental Breakdown. Dirk’s becomes sealed in the Furthest Ring, from which it is manifested into other realities as a way of spreading LE around like a disease, as we see Gamzee doing by Chucklevoodooing Lil Cal into existence. Dave’s version is eventually destroyed to possess Jack Noir direclty.
What's the biggest plothole you can think of? For something as batshit crazy as Homestuck, I can't think of that many.
The Retcon Juju. G-Get it? Because it’s transparent and makes literally a hole on the Homestuck Website so people call it the Plot Hol-
Bad jokes aside, story-wise there aren’t any actual major plot holes? Most stuff that could be a hole is more that it’s left unexplained so far, but it’s not that it’s unexplainable, rather that there are like… Multiple ways things could’ve happened to lead there.
I don’t know, I ask you guys, what is the biggest Plot Hole you can think in Homestuck?
what the fuck do chucklevoodoos even DO?! i mean how tf that shit work
They are nightmare-inducing psychic suggestion powers. That’s all. The fact Gamzee creates the Doll and Lil Cal has nothing to do with his powers, it’s just how the Dream Rooms work. They materialize the stuff you dream about.
I mean that’s really not much of a Plot Hole, there’s various reasons that could happen, including “He does have Ghosts but they’re just in their own separate Bubble doing their own thing, and we’ve just never seen them.” Unexplained, but not Plot-Holey.
Zebruh is the personification of Quadrant Vacillation seeing at how he changes the quadrants symbol in each sentence
He really isn’t though, he’s only focused on the concupiscent Quadrants. His Quirk just uses the symbols to denote things if you notice- Clubs when he’s sharing something with you and sees himself as altruistic, Spades when he’s being concescending or angry, Diamonds when he’s somewhat friendly with you, Hearts when he’s full-on flirting.
why did Jack and PM lose their arms when they put on the rings? I get why they were missing a wing, Davesprite was one winged, but why are they missing an arm?
They’re not missing a wing. Davesprite was one-winged for just a few years before he regenerated because Jack fucked him up. The Harlequin Doll was missing an arm.
So, in my eyes Tegiri went from troll otaku asshole who happens to be particularly profficient in art of hunting and executing criminals to troll otaku asshole with hidden gold ledge in his heart who happens to be particularly profficient in art of hunting and executing criminals. Considering that now Polypa is criminal within troll society... Oh the drama.
I mean, does Tegiri even actually execute criminals?? The ‘confirmed culls’ line is right out of the Navy Seals Copypasta which was obviously an asshole bragging and not having actually done any of the things he said. He may have a gold ledge in his heart rather than just being the otaku nerd, but I actually don’t think he’s even successfully killed a single criminal. He also challenges cats to duels, apparently.
That's troll kids for you so either Tegiri is just a bragging, or he is really someone who culls troll kids for living(his achievements might be exaggerated tho). And since they are troll kids. If he is successful culler, he is a huge mess personally. Haven't heard of navi copypasta before tho.
Yeah, I just have a bit of trouble thinking the weeb whose 3 bullet points are popular memes would actually be competent in the slightest.
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.
Heart of gold? Maybe he does! But I truly cannot imagine him being a competent killer of any sort.
Alchemy!!!!! I always loved the concept of combining things to make something new!!!!! What do u think would happen if you combine living things? Could u make like a super human, if u combine a human and a random object?
It’s… Hard to say. Casey was combined to make a Salamander Plush (Unliving), Dave’s Brain in a Jar was a thing (Organic but not living), a picture of Charles Dutton and a plush made just a plush (Unliving), Dave had the amber-encased monsters (Presumably unliving), so the trend seems to be that Living things just acquire the unliving traits of whatever they’re combined with. HOWEVER, Casey WAS Captchalogued, meaning living things can be Captchalogued, and since she was combined it means she HAS A code- Which means you could create Casey anew? Whether that means she’d spawn alive or as a dead Salamander it’s hard to say. It also has a loophole, however, if you combine two living things, then there’s no unliving trait to have, and there’s the possibility, say, the combo that made the Casey Plush, using II instead of && would make a living plushy Salamander? It’s… Really hard to tell because we’ve never been explicitly shown the limits of the Alchemiter.
after a month of burying myself to the neck in meta posts, i still feel like the beforus trolls are... the least planned aspect of homestuck? like the ancestors' story introduced in murderstuck felt like it applied to the alternian trolls specifically, and while the beforan trolls are good characters on their own, and many of them were written to fit into the karmic cycle with the events on alternia, in the end they just don't quite fit 100%, in a way that kinda bothers me (1/2
2/2) the dolorosa looking more kanaya than porrim is one thing, and then some beforus trolls like latula explaining the seemingly surprising relationships they developed on alternia with a “yeah it just feels right” doesn’t really cut it? maybe the difference in eras they lived in on alternia contributed to it?? it’s like. these small but very glaring holes. i can’t help but notice they’re there
The thing is, I don’t quite think the Dancestors were meant to be part of this Karmic Cycle at all? The Karma goes down from Ancestors to the Beta Trolls for their actions, but I’m not quite sure you could read the Dancestors to also be involved in that chain. The Beforus Trolls present a few things to the story- It’s possible you can argue they were the least planned part of the story, sure, however they were at the very least planned since Act 5, if not earlier.
The fact Aranea comments about her relationship with Latula showcases that they’re outside of this cycle, they’re dealing with a different set of problems themselves- A showcase of Trolls growing up and developing in a society that’s for all intents and purposes, the polar opposite of Alternian Society, to the point of being similarly oppressive in a reversed way. Lower bloods are given no agency and babied, while Higher bloods are bound to their role of caretakers whether they want it or not. This presents the dichotomy of their societies, while presenting similar problems within them- A supposedly peaceful and great society envisioned by the Sufferer, but they’re all huge teenage messes. And dead, on top of that, they’re there to tie some of the story together, while showing that there’s no such a thing as ‘biologically good or bad’, to tell us how Trolls born and raised on hyper violent Alternia could be happy and kind and try to change the world for the better, while Trolls born on paradisiac Beforus could be oppressed and extremely violent and manipulative. This ties well with the themes running through most of the story, about identity and the self, while also posing a challenge to the Trolls that are suddenly faced with figures they have a connection too but are completely different at the same time.
On top of that, it adds a layer of meta-commentary by having the Dancestors embody different facets of the Online Experience, everything from porn and lewdness to Social Justice to Feminism, passing through Dudebros and 4Chan Incoherency and Kin Personalities. But the biggest thing the Dancestors give us is… Classpect Information. To learn more about the Classes, specially, the Dancestors are a huge source of information, and specifically, of Classes that didn’t manage to fulfil their potential, but where you can see the traits of their Classes.
They are the Ancestors grown in another Era, in a different Society. They weren’t the origin of the Trolls’ Karmic Cycle, and as such, are separate from it, their personalities and goals diverge from what you may think of the Ancestors, and yet they are still the same people at the very basis. The Sufferer was a revolutionary because he saw good while raised in an awful society, and was accompanied by a set of people with their own issues that also shaped his ideals, specially with the Dolorosa raising him. Kankri, on the other hand, is born in a society that’s pretty surely bent on babying him to the extreme, and as such his views become more self-centered and ignores others’ advice and points of view. Horuss tried to grow up as everything his caste expected him to be, but ended up coming up with nothing. Given Nothing by his World, he went into an identity crisis and came up with the fact he’s Horse Kin. This may seem random and unrelated to the E%ecutor, but if you think about it, Darkleer was a proper Highblood Executor, raised by a society that told him to feel no pity on the Lower Bloods… But at the moment of taking the Disciple, he learned to empathize with them. He couldn’t bring himself to kill her, and so he… Didn’t. Which led to his exile, and an identity crisis that lasted for sweeps. He’s obviously still tormented by the time Mindfang gets him to make her arm- He cannot find himself, what he is supposed to do.
Rufioh, a Rogue of Breath, wants to spreads his wings, isolate himself from the society that wants to coddle him, and ends up challenging the elders of the surrounding villages to take leadership from them. Living in a more carefree environment, he’s more… Laid back and chill. People seem to look up to him and follow him naturally, and he dislikes that. Compare that to the Summoner- Who instead of trying to be coddled, is a mutant with wings on a society that kills lowbloods for less than that. There’s no way to isolate himself or go away in a society like that, to be free requires a change in the social order, and much like Rufioh, people look up to him. A Rebel leader, challenging the social order to take Leadership from them, to be Free. Meulin is easily shaped by others’ ideals, and has a deep zeal for relationships and love. On Beforus, Kurloz corrupted her and manipulates her into the Highblood Cult, and she clings to him as friends even after breaking up, as well as obviously adores anything gossipy and feelsy. As the Disciple, instead, she’s shown these ideals of goodness and love the Sufferer is preaching, and is absolutely entranced by them. She clings to him, and these, instead, to the point of obsession. In a violent world that took what she loved the most away from her? Rather than being the happy shipper she was, she tried to make the word that she was so obsessed with last through the centuries.
If you focus on the Karmic Cycle, you won’t find an answer with the Dancestors, I don’t think. But when you focus on their Classpect and their overall Personality Traits, the similarities really happen to show through Post and Pre Scratch. A difference of the worlds, a meta-commentary on the Internet at large, an interesting showcase of Classpects. Irrelevant? Perhaps. But I personally like the world-building they bring to the table.
