2023-12-13 2:57:09 ¶ ● ⬀ ⬈

no-light-left-on:

> kirtlandswarbler:

> > cephalon-sancti:

> > > I wanna pick someone’s brain at Arkane for how they chose to make the Dunwall setting in the specific time frame it’s in

> > > Specifically that it’s late Victorian to early Edwardian, but they’re starting to run electricity (powered by supernatural whale oil), and they very specifically and explicitly do not have anything approaching germ theory.

> > > Clearly they have some idea that inhaling fumes is bad (see: Whalers), but I can’t find any hint that they would have miasma theory either. What DO they think causes disease? In game several people are investigating the cause of the rat plague but the closest they’ve gotten to a causative agent is “rat parts???” like not even the droppings or fluids of a rat, just “rat.”

> > > I know that is supposed to resemble the bubonic plague, but there’s no mention of fleas on the rats we can find being studied. If the plague is closer to my personal guess that it’s some sort of turbo hantavirus, then Sokolov has no chance of figuring it out if he doesn’t know that germs are a thing.

> > > Did the Abbey of the Everyman decide that germ theory was heresy or something and that’s why they don’t have it?

> > What a funny coincidence, just yesterday I was thinking about this very same topic! So I did some digging myself hehe :3

> > First for some visual evidence -

> > This ad, which we only ever see a cropped version in game of but which appears in full in The Dunwall Archives, makes me think that miasma theory is at least potentially a thing, although it’s not certain proof - one might just want to “purify the air of sick-rooms” in the sense that stinky air is gross and unpleasant and making it smell nicer is just olfactorily nicer yknow, it doesn’t have to be a “bad air is a vector for disease” thing.

> > Meanwhile the Dead Counters are not shown with any protection on their faces, implying that at least dead bodies are not thought of as giving off any miasma, or at least not enough to damage someone with a “vigorous constitution”.

> > Over in DH2 Addermire is called an “Institute of Infectious Disease” so there must at least be some understanding of infectious vs noninfectious diseases. That doesn’t count out miasma theory, though - noninfectious diseases might just be thought of as not giving off noxious fumes.

> > Iirc there is also mention of leech therapy somewhere but I can’t remember where it was so I can’t speak more on that.

> > Moving on to written notes and books (for DH1 I only looked at the ones in the WrittenNotes packages bc im lazy sorry lmao), starting with DH1 -

> > The book “The Rat Plague” by an unnamed natural philosopher posits that the rats “pass [the plague] readily between members of their own species, perhaps through mites”. The author can also read their blood to the point to the point where they state that “The blood of the rats tells its own story, allowing me to gauge the number of generations that a given group of rats have lived with the plague. […] The rats collected in the poorest parts of town, in the slums, exhibit the oldest strains of the plague. While those found near the docks - where the foreign, plague-bearing rats would presumably have entered our city - exhibit a younger strain of plague”. So this author knows that there is something in the blood that is at least a sign of the plague but it’s never stated outright if they think that this is just a symptom or indeed part of how the plague spreads.

> > “A Second Solution” by Piero Joplin calls this particular plague a “strain” - jumping over to DH2 for a second there, too, a letter from journalist to Hypatia writes of a “strain of Bloodfly Fever”, so it seems quite accepted among the scientific community that diseases grow and change and evolve. Back to Piero’s book, he says that he too has “studied [the Plague] within the blood of those so afflicted”, evidently quite intensely and in comparison with other illnesses or strains of plague as he marvels about how good this particular strain is, calling it “almost perfect”. I did find this passage about the elixirs available from him and Sokolov notable too, though - it makes it quite clear that he thinks that there is more to humans than just flesh and bone, which might have implications for how he views disease as well: “And while it is true that Piero’s Remedy and Sokolov’s Elixir are known to protect the body against the plague equally, my own has properties, not fully understood, which relate to the mind itself, and the spirit. And it is in this way that my formula wins out. Here, is where one should pay attention to this contest. For you see, Sokolov’s Elixir, with its emphasis on the brute, animal body, is a crass goo better suited for livestock. The subtle and secret variance in the key ingredients making up Piero’s Remedy ensure that it works on the higher functions that separate humankind from the mindless blue-jawed hagfish swimming in the Wrenhaven River.”

> > “Avoiding the Rat Plague”, “a government protocol on disease practices”, calls it the Plague a “contagion”, again showing that there is certainly knowledge of infectious vs noninfectious diseases.

> > A book describing proper protocols when dealing with Weeper states that “After use, strict washing procedures must be followed with regard to washing the metal kennels, transport paddocks, and the carriages used to transport the infected to one of the deportation zones” - I doubt a miasma could linger long enough that it would need to be washed away with water, so there does seem to be some understanding of disease being spread by physical substances that can stick to surfaces.

> > Last a letter to Galvani from the Academy says that “We’ve stayed fairly insulated from the plague, since so few come and go here”, implying that they think the plague can at least in part be spread by contact with people and not just rats.

> > Also, while there are plenty of mentions of sewers and their associated bad smells as well as other sources of bad smells, nobody ever seems to directly connect the two - even when describing the sewer system and the people who live in them or visit the tunnels for all sorts of purposes there was no mention of them contracting illness from how bad the place smells. But then again there was also no mention of anyone falling into the sewers and contracting a disease that way or anything.

> > I believe there was some talk of astrological events causing the Rat Plague too but I can’t remember where I read that or if I just made it up after having read about the Black Death (for which the best scientific theory at the time was that it was caused by a conjunction of several planets which caused a general bad miasma, as you probably know but just for any reader who doesn’t).

> > Now for Dishonored 2 -

> > The leftover journal from the time of the Rat Plague is very interesting as it says that “Everyone knows plague is carried on the winds. I will do the only sensible thing and lock myself up until the infected breezes move on”. It repeats the topic of infected winds several times, this really seeming like the accepted explanation for the author. But then this is a guy who spontaneously quarantined himself forever the second the plague broke out, so who is this a widespread idea as the author claims or just this one guy? Who knows!

> > One book talks of illness “due to the Inhalation of Airborne Debris” [emphasis mine] which is, I think, at least somewhat notable: this text makes it very clear that the cause of illness here is the inhalation of dust, not an inhalation of miasma or similar quasi-metaphysical bad air.

> > A letter from Hypatia-era patient at Addermire complains that “the Moir tanning boxes [are] now only used to treat the miners with vitamin deficiencies, developed apparently after not seeing daylight for months”, so there is also some knowledge in the population of the mechanism of vitamin D production in the human body.

> > A guard at Addermire writes in his journal: “When I shower with water from Addermire’s reservoirs, I don’t feel clean. It’s as if disease is in the very walls. So many sick people have come through here, for years! And not only carrying germs, but suffering maladies of the mind. Those kinds of things leave a mark on a place, even after the patients are cured or die off. And I’ve never liked doctors. They have a particular smell, and look at you like you’re just a pile of organs. I’m probably sick already, having breathed this cold, wet air for so long”. So there seems to be both a belief in germ theory with germs being mentioned by name, but also some metaphysical belief in disease leaving residual marks in places where many sick people gathered - maybe even something miasma-y, what with the “particular smell” of doctors and the “cold, wet air” of Addermire.

> > Finally the book I found most interesting was a book about the Rat Plague, which states: “in Serkonos, the population of disease-carrying rats was kept in check by bloodflies. […].It’s true that the plague was spread by rats, but some natural philosophers now believe that it was also carried on wind currents” [emphasis mine]. That is fascinating! This implies to me that unlike our world, where miasma theory was superceded by others around this time period, the DH world is moving towards miasma theory as the new accepted theory! Damn that’s interesting.

> > All in all results are completely inconclusive, this post did nothing to help, goodbye

> this may not add much, but since I’m in the process of replaying DH, here are some things I noticed

> -> some of the guards wear filtration masks. it’s mainly those who are in contact with the dead or infected, the best example would probably be the ones working for Sokolov. so while yes, the posters do not depict people in masks, that was either a stylistic choice or, if people sign up to count the dead, they do not get all the necessary protection which the guards get because of their position

> ->the servants at Galvani’s place insist on hand washing if anyone comes in contact with the rat viscera or areas where it might be (i.e. the door handles of Galvani’s office). that suggests that people, at least those working for doctor Galvani, know that people need to wash their hands on top of just being careful about miasma or germs in the air

> -> in one of her throwaway lines, Cecelia mentions that the sheets at the Hound Pits used to be colourful before someone bleached them to get rid of the plague. bleach and vinegar as disinfectant are mentioned a couple times through the game

> -> during the Loyalists, Piero and Sokolov are talking about their respective remedies. Sokolov asks Piero if he considered the “homeopathic solution” which, while not entirely answering your question, does mean that homeopathy is a thing in Dishonored

> -> on a completely opposite side of things, the plague is also thought to be of supernatural origin. I remember a couple lines about it being related to the Outsider (as any bad thing in this universe is), but the best example are the two guards by Hound Pits Pub at the start of the mission The Loyalists. one of them says that (High Overseer Martin said) “Corvo cursed the city [with plague] by killing the Empress, and the curse will be broken only with a true Kaldwin on the throne”

Reading and taking notes, nodding

Thank you everyone for your additions!

So with all this put together, we can conclude that scientists in Dishonored have the very beginnings of a grasp of germ theory, expressed as an avoidance or cleaning of contaminated surfaces and materials. At the same time, miasma theory exists but apparently in a much weaker form as, crucially, it is not seen as common sense. Both seem to co-exist which helps at least encourage maintaining cleanliness and sanitation standards (if you can afford it :/ )

Interestingly, the rat plague is specifically not airborne! Weepers smell butt-nasty, which would give the miasma theory folks some ground for their arguments. However, in the Eminent Domain mission in Knife of Dunwall, the low chaos resolution involves putting the head of a weeper into Timsh’s air circulator pump, specifically to get Timsh evicted on plague charges without hurting any of the other people who are in the building. This does explain the observations about ill winds, and it makes sense given that if you’re close enough to smell a weeper, you’re probably within range of its infectious fluids.

I really have no idea what to make of the elixirs other than “that clown Sokolov made antibiotic Redbull”. There’s that plant that notably has anti-plague effects, which makes me wonder if that’s what he’s referring to with a “homeopathic solution”. But homeopathy also works on the “less is more” principle so either homeopathy in Dishonored means “plant based vs manufactured chemical based”, or Piero got him to not dilute the cure when working with him.

Elixirs are also where we start heading into the murky territory of the third theory of disease in Dishonored, spiritual influence. While the rat plague is very natural in origin, there’s a lot of evidence to suggest that the Outsider’s influence on the real world is tangible. It’s very interesting that he actually DOESN’T cause disease, but his influence helps put forth the theory that the sick are sick because they have strayed from the path of righteousness. Since in Dishonored magic is fucking real, the scientists are gonna have a hard time with that one :/

I really want to do a deep dive into religion and belief in Dishonored at some point because it’s fascinating to me that a) God exists and is a bastard, b) there’s a religion specifically meant to oppose God, and c) God’s influence very specifically brings misfortune. But this post is about the existence of germ theory in Dishonored.