I desperately want to start making content about characters other than Edmund and plays other than King Lear but we’re still doing King Lear in AP Lit so every time I try to move on to other stuff school is just like “nope nope you gotta keep thinking about King Lear”
Anyway we’re about to start Pride and Prejudice in regular English class so guess I’ll be making memes about that soon
I desperately want to start making content about characters other than Edmund and plays other than King Lear but we’re still doing King Lear in AP Lit so every time I try to move on to other stuff school is just like “nope nope you gotta keep thinking about King Lear”
Anyway we’re about to start Pride and Prejudice in regular English class so guess I’ll be making memes about that soon
But anyway while I’m still here talking about Edmund, let me just say
If anyone would have given him even a drop of attention and respect at any point in his life, he would have caused approximately 0 drama in this play.
The funniest part is that it’s not supposed to be a plot twist
Shakespearean audiences knew right away
Thing is, we’re a bunch of modern day teenagers
Most of which are very unfamiliar with Shakespearean stuff
We’re gonna get up to 1.2 eventually and I am looking forward to that day
GUESS WHAT WE’RE GONNA BE DOING TODAY
(That’s right- 1.2)
Small update: the class’s reaction was something along the lines of “oh. … ok.”
Anyway the more surprising update is how pro-Edmund this class is- if this was taught by any other teacher in the school I bet they’d say something like “Edmund= Evil. He’s bad. You’re supposed to hate him”
But this teacher’s like “Edmund’s has valid reason to be resentful towards society. Also he’s clearly very smart. One of the smartest characters here.”
And I’m just sitting here like “that’s very cool of you to acknowledge. Very cool.”
congrats on the milestone! topic: your favorite movie
I left this in my asks for a day or two because I was trying to remember what movies I like, but them I realized that I just don’t watch movies.
Anyway my least favorite movie is the version of Hamlet from like 1942 that we’re watching in English class. It’s actually the worst thing I ever saw in my life.
TOP 13 SONGS WITH EDMUND VIBES, AND WHICH LYRICS IN THEM SPECIFICALLY MADE ME THINK OF HIM
(#2 WILL SURPRISE YOU)
(Did I do this clickbait thing right?)
(Let me just say- organizing these from least to most Edmund-y was a lot more difficult that I thought it would be.)
#13- Burned Out by Dodie
Why: he wants to be loved- and he is loved- but he doesn’t see it until he’s dying. “Words only get through if they’re sharp”- he’s motivated and fueled by his anger and resentment towards the world- The constant insults and degrading is what got through to him and pushed him towards getting revenge
#12- Pantsuit Sasquatch by Molly Lewis
Why: Honestly this is more my opinion than something that comes directly from the play, but had everyone just left Edmund alone he may not have decided that revenge was necessary. Sure he’d still hate the system in general, but he may not have taken everything so far if everyone acted half decently towards him.
#11- Pretender by AJR
Why: “I do not belong here. You all clearly do. But I’m a good pretender” Enough said.
#10- The Last Day of Summer from The Lightning Thief Musical (that one based off of Percy Jackson) (Specifically Luke’s part) (somehow Luke has major Edmund vibes that I didn’t notice until recently?)
Why: “It doesn’t pay to be a good kid, a good kid, a good son”- in Edmund’s case; literally. He has no inheritance. “You know this world will never be ours so long as our parents rule over the stars” and “The gods were never on our side so I think it’s time we watch them fall” (for those who never read Percy Jackson- “the gods” are their parents- they’re demigods)- anyway. Yeah I don’t think I need to explain why I put that there.
#9- Hurricane from Death Note the Musical (yeah there’s a musical based off of Death note)
Why: remember that one part where he. Like. Writes this letter that says something like “heyyy Edmund lets kill dad. Love, Edgar”? And then Gloucester was like “well I gotta execute Edgar now I guess”?
#8- Are you Satisfied? by Marina
Why: ok. We’re getting to the point on this list where I really don’t have to justify or explain these anymore.
#7- Sweet Hibiscus Tea by Penelope Scott
Why: again this is more my opinion than fact, but I feel like Edmund, pre-play, when he was a child at least, did try really hard to earn approval and respect from Gloucester. Hold on I’m going to try to find textual evidence for this. Oh right the whole “look sir I bleed” thing. Still trying to get approval. Yup. I knew I didn’t just make that up. So “Here’s the thing I can’t do anything right, try as I absolutely totally might” is justified. Now moving on- “I’m not your protagonist, I’m not even my own”- Edmund never tries to justify what he does. He never sees himself as a good person, or even a justifiable person. He goes “hey. Look. I’m the bad guy here, alright? Got that?” Leading us into the next song on this list:
#6- The Bad Guy by Thomas Sanders
Why: the stereotype for a bastard in Shakespearean times was that he’d be a plotting scheming villain sort of character. He looked around and saw that that’s what the world expects of him, and said “oh well I guess I may as well go along with it.”
#5- You’re Gonna Go Far Kid by The Offspring
Why: Edmund doesn’t do anything directly- instead he turns people against each other and watches the chaos from afar. He’s one of the few Shakespeare antagonists to commit 0 direct murders.
#4- Nothing Left to Lose from Tangled the Series (I know, right? Who’d have thought it would have good songs? But it does!)
Why: Edmund’s perfectly satisfied with being he villain- morality is of no concern to him. He wants what should have been his, had the system been more merit based and less blood based.
#3- Waiting in the Wings from Tangled the Series
Why: He’s been overlooked his whole life, that’s about it with the reason for this one.
#2- Build a Wall from Shrek the musical. YES. SHREK THE MUSICAL (remember when I said #2 will surprise you?)
Why: no need to explain this one. But also for the line in this song “the best way to conquer they say is to divide!!”, because divide and conquer is a very Edmund thing to do.
#1- Crossing the Line from (again) Tangled the Series (just. Just read the words here. Please. It’s literally his first soliloquy.)
analysis of Gloucester that my AP Lit teacher told us in class, and I liked enough to decide to post it here-
So basically, Gloucester’s no idiot. And anyone with half a brain would have thought that Edmund’s whole “ohhh nooo my brother totally wrote to me saying he wants you dead!!” Would be suspicious. So at first glance, there seem to be a few problems here-
1- Why does Gloucester automatically believe that what he’s being told is true- that his son wants to kill him? His son, who never showed any sign of wanting him dead before?
2-Why doesn’t Gloucester suspect, even for a second, that Edmund’s lying, when Edmund has every reasonable motive to lie? Shouldn’t he suspect Edmund automatically?
The thing is though, he doesn’t see Edmund as having a motive to lie. It’s human nature to be more likely to believe what you hear than not to. And he doesn’t see Edmund as having a reason to be resentful.
See, the whole thing with illegitimate children not inheriting wasn’t a new thing, it was just how the world worked. To him, he was an earl because he was born into it, and random citizens weren’t nobility because they weren’t born into it. They all just accepted their place in society- you don’t see citizens, during a stable government’s reign, fighting the system or trying to become nobility.
Same worked for bastards. To Gloucester, the same way the average random citizen felt no resentment and had no motive to commit treason, to him Edmund had no reason to feel resentment or try to take on more power or status than he was born with. So he didn’t suspect that Edmund had any reason to lie to him or frame his brother for attempted patricide. Because he was so caught up in the system that he couldn’t imagine how the system might be harmful to those who don’t benefit from it.
(Tbh same applies to modern society and we can get all political here, but this is a Shakespeare blog not a politics blog)
@suits-of-woe You’re right you’re so right but this has been on my mind for the past hour or so- Light and Edmund really do have completely opposite vibes
And I think that’s because Light does bad things (ie essentially being a serial killer) but still believes that he’s a good person. Actually, he believes that he’s Morally Superior to everyone around him.
Meanwhile, Edmund, who has an understandable enough motive to do everything he’s doing, and can easily justify himself, essentially says to the audience “Nope I’m irredeemable. Don’t bother trying to justify me. I’m just the worst”.
(Edette Edit: no Edmund is not justified. Yes Edmund is in a situation where he can justify his actions a lot better than Light)
I don’t know why I haven’t posted about this before, but if there was one semi competent person in King Lear, they would have called Edmund out in 2.1 right away-
Edmund: Yeah so I saw Edgar being very sus so I confronted him and told him patricide is bad, but then he stabbed me and ran away
Competent Person: So you didn’t have time to counterattack?
I don’t know why I haven’t posted about this before, but if there was one semi competent person in King Lear, they would have called Edmund out in 2.1 right away-
Edmund: Yeah so I saw Edgar being very sus so I confronted him and told him patricide is bad, but then he stabbed me and ran away
Competent Person: So you didn’t have time to counterattack?
Edmund: no he ran away
CP: then why’s there blood on your sword?
Edmund: …
CP: seems like you stabbed yourself.
@all-peristeronic YOU’RE RIGHT and I somehow didn’t even realize that-
If Gloucester wouldn’t refuse to pay attention to Edmund for a solid 5 seconds, he would have realized that the story didn’t add up.
BUT NOOO HE JUST HAS TO IGNORE HIS SON WHO SUPPOSEDLY SAVED HIS LIFE AND WAS STABBED IN THE PROCESS
I don’t know why I haven’t posted about this before, but if there was one semi competent person in King Lear, they would have called Edmund out in 2.1 right away-
Edmund: Yeah so I saw Edgar being very sus so I confronted him and told him patricide is bad, but then he stabbed me and ran away
Competent Person: So you didn’t have time to counterattack?
Edmund: no he ran away
CP: then why’s there blood on your sword?
Edmund: …
CP: seems like you stabbed yourself.
@all-peristeronic YOU’RE RIGHT and I somehow didn’t even realize that-
If Gloucester wouldn’t refuse to pay attention to Edmund for a solid 5 seconds, he would have realized that the story didn’t add up.
BUT NOOO HE JUST HAS TO IGNORE HIS SON WHO SUPPOSEDLY SAVED HIS LIFE AND WAS STABBED IN THE PROCESS
Gloucester cuts him off in the middle of his carefully-rehearsed lie. He doesn’t even pay attention when Edmund says, “Look, sir, I bleed.” ;-;
Gloucester interrupting Edmund there is a detail that’s *definitely* not analyzed enough-
I’ve seen a bunch of posts about “look sir I bleed”, but we already know that Gloucester doesn’t care about Edmund’s wellbeing.
The thing is, even when Edmund’s supposedly giving him important information about someone who supposedly has been plotting to kill him, he still interrupts him.
So in conclusion, his complete disregard for Edmund is so strong that he’s willing to no get some potentially life saving information just to prove the point that he couldn’t care less about his very own illegitimate son.
Also thoughts on “Our father’s love is to the bastard Edmund as to the legitimate”
It’s not though?
And this line bothered me, because 1.1 proves that it’s definitely not. So what’s the deal here? I don’t think he’s in denial- he’s not the type. He seems to be very aware in the rest of his soliloquy that he’s not exactly the most loved guy around here. So how can you read this line and make it valid?
Here are some options- but please feel free to add your own or enlighten me on how it’s actually supposed to be read
1- “(Now) our father’s love is to…”- as in “with this letter our father’s love will be to the bastard Edmund as to the legitimate”
2- (*sarcastically*) “our father’s love is to…- as in “oh yeah. Totally. Yeah, our father totally loves bother of us equally. Seems legit.”
3-(*said as a quote*) “our father’s love…”- as in he’s quoting probably Gloucester and others, who have told him that Gloucester loves both of them equally. Which has always come across as a blatant lie to him.
Ok so- hear me out- a True Crime Podcast type of thing, except based off of Classic Literature. Basically fictional crime but spoken about in the classic True Crime Podcast sort of way.
A girl in my class’s take on Kent coming back to work for Lear-
(Not an exact quote bc class ended nearly an hour ago)
“So Kent’s obsessed with being Lear’s top adviser/ Lear’s most trusted person in court, so he came back even though he’d be killed if he were caught because he can’t stand the thought of someone else filling his role. He came back to get his role back or die trying”
And I think that’s a very valid interpretation, because it fits in with the themes of the play well.
Practically everyone’s obsessed with their roles and where they fit in here- Lear begins losing his sanity when he realizes he’s not a real king anymore, Edmund’s out here trying to gain a better title (or. Just. Any title at all), Cordelia decides that she’d rather give up her status than kiss up to Lear- I could (and might!) go on analyzing this in another post.
Anyway this thing happened today where I was supposed to come up with reasons why Goneril was Wrong to tell her servants to be rude to Lear, and I Couldn’t, and I was just trying to get the answer the teacher wanted,
so I was like “… because he was the king? But he’s barely the king now??”
And she was like “and why else?”
And I was like “…I guess he’s her father so she has some obligation to be polite to him??”
And she was like “and Why Else??”
And I was like “?????? I don’t know?”
And she was like “because he just gave her land and she should be grateful!!”
And I was like “??????????????”
Like. Yeah. Who else would he have given it to?? He wants it to stay in the family, right? So he’s not gonna give it to anyone other than his daughters?? It was his choice to retire?? They never asked for land he just handed it to them?? Unless you count praising him as asking for land, but praising a vey unstable all powerful ruler just seems like a common sense thing to do if you dont wanna die or get banished??
contains Edmund VS Iago, and also analyzing Edmund’s first soliloquy
Anyway back to Edmund VS Iago, what I feel like isn’t spoken about enough is their relationship with the audience and how they “interact” with them
So Edmund and Iago are both really into soliloquies and asides. Iago more than Edmund, but that’s not the point.
The point is that without their soliloquies and asides, the audience would have absolutely no idea what’s happening.
So they’re kind enough to fill us in. Tell us what they’re about to do and then say “hey look, I did it, just like I said I would!”.
But the major difference that really sets them apart is that Iago constantly gives excuses for his actions, while Edmund never gives excuses for them. I know I know, I’ve said that a hundred times. As did everyone else who’s ever mentioned Edmund on this site. But wait, there’s more to it.
(Here’s where my super cool analysis comes in, except there’s a high chance that I’m completely wrong)
So let’s go on the assumption that they know there’s an audience there- or at least are talking to the audience intentionally and not just talking to themselves.
In that case, why would Edmund not bother justifying himself, when the audience is judging him and he knows it? And why would Iago throw one bad excuse after another at us, when any audience would see right through them and say “nope. That guy’s just racist.’?
Well, in Shakespearean times chances are they weren’t thinking about racism. Iago’s talking to the probably racist Shakespearean audience. He knows there’s a chance he can get them on his side. He’s white, Othello’s black, the audience is racist, so he thinks he has a shot at convincing them, no matter how wrong he is.
Meanwhile, Edmund’s also talking to the Shakespearean audience. The audience is used to the bastard stereotype- which, as a quick google search will confirm, was “treacherous” “plotting/ scheming villain”. Edmund gives up all hope of turning the audience to his side as soon as he’s introduced, because the audience already knows what they expect of him, and frankly, that’s exactly what they’re going to get.
He opens up his first soliloquy with “Thou, nature, art my goddess” and everyone in the Shakespearean audience knew what that meant. No one was sitting around wondering what he means- what his nature is. The audience understood that he was essentially saying “you know how you passed your judgement on me as soon as the play began? Well guess what. You were right.”
Then he goes on to say a few more lines, along the lines of “life is unfair, I deserve more than I’m getting”- which, to be fair, is pretty standard villain stuff to say. Sure, Edmund may be more correct with these lines than the modern day antagonist, but it still sounds like what you’d expect him to say.
Until “Why brand they us with base? With baseness? With bastardy? Base, base?”
We had similar lines earlier- “why bastard? Wherefore base?”,which he used to lead into “when my dimensions are as well compact..”- saying “these stereotypes kinda suck,…. especially when I’m so hot and smart and talented”
But in the lines “why brand they us with base? With baseness…” he gets lost in them. The first time he was able to pull himself out of the mindset of recognizing the unfairness of his situation, but when he brings it up a second time, he dwells on it longer and gets dragged into it. He knows the audience won’t recognize any valid claims he makes against the system or against Gloucester. There’s no point in trying to convince them he’s right. Which (in my opinion at least) is why the transition is so unsmooth. He goes from “why brand they us with base” to “for who in the lusty stealth of nature”, to “Well, legitimate Edgar, I must have your land”.
He switches topics from recognizing the unfairness of his situation, and how it’s never an even playing field for him, and how he’ll always be considered less than Edgar, no matter how hard he works, no matter how smart and talented he becomes- to the topic of “well bastard are better than legitimates anyway”- to the topic of “anyway. let’s get to what you came here for- I’m going to take my brother’s land”
He literally has to force himself to go back into villain mode.
Anyway I’m not sure where I’m going with this, so I’ll leave this as it is for now-
Anyway this thing happened today where I was supposed to come up with reasons why Goneril was Wrong to tell her servants to be rude to Lear, and I Couldn’t, and I was just trying to get the answer the teacher wanted,
so I was like “… because he was the king? But he’s barely the king now??”
And she was like “and why else?”
And I was like “…I guess he’s her father so she has some obligation to be polite to him??”
And she was like “and Why Else??”
And I was like “?????? I don’t know?”
And she was like “because he just gave her land and she should be grateful!!”
And I was like “??????????????”
Like. Yeah. Who else would he have given it to?? He wants it to stay in the family, right? So he’s not gonna give it to anyone other than his daughters?? It was his choice to retire?? They never asked for land he just handed it to them?? Unless you count praising him as asking for land, but praising a vey unstable all powerful ruler just seems like a common sense thing to do if you dont wanna die or get banished??
Today’s new and improved version of this was
Teacher: Edette, how does Goneril speak to Albany?
Me, knowing good and well the sort of answer she wants, but also wants to say something that I actually think is true: She.. speaks to him in a very strong way that was probably not common for women of the time..?
Teacher: Goneril’s very dismissive of Albany and couldn’t care less about him. She’s very rude and disrespectful to him
But like?? He’s dismissive first?? Goneril made a pretty reasonable request (that Lear cuts down the size of his entourage), and Lear curses her out, and then Goneril’s obviously upset about that, and Albany’s like “well this is such a complicated situation, I’d rather not comfort my wife because I might be choosing the wrong side here”. I mean. Albany. Your wife was just cursed out by her father for asking him nicely not to wreck her house.
So, he goes off to France, but then he finds out that the prince might be a psychopath and also killed his whole family (no, I personally don’t believe that Hamlet’s a psychopath, nor do I claim that he killed Ophelia, but from laertes’s POV both of those statements are legit)
So he’s in Denmark and luckily, the king is nice! The king is understanding! the king is maybe evil..?? But that’s a problem for another day, because you have to avenge your dead family!
So you duel but he’s really good at fencing. But it’s ok! You can just stab him when his back’s turned! And- oh oops everyone’s Dead. Including you. Oh well. (So much for that King who you thought was on your side, but turns out he was just trying to quiet his nephew who knew about a murder he committed).
Additionally: the parallels between Laertes and Claudius and between Edmund and Cornwall
I’ve decided to come back to this now-
So. Guy who is currently Feeling Lots of Emotion is on a revenge mission. Meanwhile, higher ranking Man with an Agenda is trying to advance his Agenda. Man with Agenda realizes that Guy with Emotion can be manipulated at the moment to advance The Agenda.
Additionally: the parallels between Laertes and Claudius and between Edmund and Cornwall
I’ve decided to come back to this now-
So. Guy who is currently Feeling Lots of Emotion is on a revenge mission. Meanwhile, higher ranking Man with an Agenda is trying to advance his Agenda. Man with Agenda realizes that Guy with Emotion can be manipulated at the moment to advance The Agenda.
Then They Both Die
The End
Wait wait wait
Man with Agenda dies while doing Bad Thing, and Guy with Emotion dies in duel. But while Guy with Emotion is Dying, he confessed to some Plot Relevant Stuff that helps Protagonist/s end the play
Me, on a test: Regan and Goneril possibly had valid concerns about Lear’s anger issues and impulsive decision making, because if you give unlimited authority to someone who makes decisions on impulse, bad stuff will probably happen
The Teacher: ok but actually Regan and Goneril are evil bc of that whole Gloucester’s eyes thing. So you’re wrong.
Me: akajsjdjkskakaka when did I say they aren’t- we aren’t even talking about Gloucester’s eyes we’re talking about if their concerns from 1.1 are valid
Back to talking about underrated Shakespeare characters-
Sebastian from Twelfth Night.
He shows up in a new town, and some random lady comes up to him and is like “Cesario please marry me!! Please!” and he thinks to himself “well I’m not Cesario. And I have no idea who Cesario is. But this woman is hot, and I’m not gonna turn down a marriage proposal from a hot woman” and then he goes and marries her
We make fun of Disney characters for getting married after knowing each other for a few days, but Sebastian got married to someone he’s never even spoken to
(And they stayed married after Olivia found out he’s not Cesario?? She just married a stranger and she’s fine with it?? Olivia you’re great but I’ll never understand you)
Back to talking about underrated Shakespeare characters-
Sebastian from Twelfth Night.
He shows up in a new town, and some random lady comes up to him and is like “Cesario please marry me!! Please!” and he thinks to himself “well I’m not Cesario. And I have no idea who Cesario is. But this woman is hot, and I’m not gonna turn down a marriage proposal from a hot woman” and then he goes and marries her
We make fun of Disney characters for getting married after knowing each other for a few days, but Sebastian got married to someone he’s never even spoken to
(And they stayed married after Olivia found out he’s not Cesario?? She just married a stranger and she’s fine with it?? Olivia you’re great but I’ll never understand you)
Also some random guy tries to beat him up, and instead of questioning anything he’s just like “Well I guess we’re fighting now” and starts throwing punches
