June 2025

Martin’s so fucking boring is the problem and all his fans are the most annoying people in the world is the other problem.

like gertrude made decisions and stuck to them and some of them were very difficult decisions and some are ones that we can recognise as an audience that she shouldn’t have done, but that’s what makes her a more interesting character and also like i just think she’s cool because yeah she IS cool. and i mean yeah jon’s little surgery on melanie was probably a low point and i agree that she should’ve had more control in that situation but he’s still got completely understandable motives to his flaws and that’s understood by the fandom and he’s interesting enough and i just like him and also like literally everyone hates him at that point in his life if i made a hate account for him id just be piling on to that poor man and he’s been through enough tbh.

which is to say that, no, while im not particularly on the side of the individual actions listed there, like i appreciate their characters and the larger picture and the reason they may have acted the way they did. with martin, however, it’s just his character to the core that pisses me off and the weird just like everything he does and especially how he’s been somehow projected onto enough by the fandom that they’ve managed to competely turn him into something entirely different just so they can kin him more comfortably.

and my point about 172 was that it wasn’t a stressful enough situation or environment to justify his actions because he was in absolutely no need to rush anything (no concept of time because apocalypse!) and therefore he very clearly was not panicked and was instead acting rationally and in a way that he justified to himself when he hit jon, meaning that it was an action that i don’t consider redeemable in what’s supposed to be a portrayal of a semi-healthy relationship (as in it’s meant to be like “good/positive relationship between the individuals despite the situation” kinda thing rather than directly a portrayal of a more toxic relationship between jon and martin directly). like yes, the apocalypse is stressful, (tho martin has it better than lowkey anyone else in the world rn), but by this point he’s had time to be thinking rationally when he was physically hitting his boyfriend, and there was nothing in the situation that would indicate higher stress than normal or would really justify his actions to me (yes, i appreciate the whole Web thing but what im saying is he had time to think, and he thought, and he still hit jon when there was no real reason to).

i just don’t see this as the absurd take you’re making it out to be when i can’t see martin as likable enough for this glazing in the first place - like he’s mean to everybody, especially jon by the end, and he just doesn’t come across as likable to anyone except the people that want to relate to him (because they’ve got like issues with their mother and like get lonely sometimes or whatever) or people that think him being needlessly mean is a like crazy character change to be all like badass and cool or whatever. like he’s literally just mean when there’s no reason to be, and just because he’s in a bad situation doesn’t mean i have to like him, because we never really see him as anything except whiney or mean

it’s so funny just how much fans have to like mutilate martins character just to make him like actually likeable omg carlos would NEVER do any of the shit martin does free that poor man ✊

Martin’s so fucking boring is the problem and all his fans are the most annoying people in the world is the other problem.

like gertrude made decisions and stuck to them and some of them were very difficult decisions and some are ones that we can recognise as an audience that she shouldn’t have done, but that’s what makes her a more interesting character and also like i just think she’s cool because yeah she IS cool. and i mean yeah jon’s little surgery on melanie was probably a low point and i agree that she should’ve had more control in that situation but he’s still got completely understandable motives to his flaws and that’s understood by the fandom and he’s interesting enough and i just like him and also like literally everyone hates him at that point in his life if i made a hate account for him id just be piling on to that poor man and he’s been through enough tbh.

which is to say that, no, while im not particularly on the side of the individual actions listed there, like i appreciate their characters and the larger picture and the reason they may have acted the way they did. with martin, however, it’s just his character to the core that pisses me off and the weird just like everything he does and especially how he’s been somehow projected onto enough by the fandom that they’ve managed to competely turn him into something entirely different just so they can kin him more comfortably.

and my point about 172 was that it wasn’t a stressful enough situation or environment to justify his actions because he was in absolutely no need to rush anything (no concept of time because apocalypse!) and therefore he very clearly was not panicked and was instead acting rationally and in a way that he justified to himself when he hit jon, meaning that it was an action that i don’t consider redeemable in what’s supposed to be a portrayal of a semi-healthy relationship (as in it’s meant to be like “good/positive relationship between the individuals despite the situation” kinda thing rather than directly a portrayal of a more toxic relationship between jon and martin directly). like yes, the apocalypse is stressful, (tho martin has it better than lowkey anyone else in the world rn), but by this point he’s had time to be thinking rationally when he was physically hitting his boyfriend, and there was nothing in the situation that would indicate higher stress than normal or would really justify his actions to me (yes, i appreciate the whole Web thing but what im saying is he had time to think, and he thought, and he still hit jon when there was no real reason to).

i just don’t see this as the absurd take you’re making it out to be when i can’t see martin as likable enough for this glazing in the first place - like he’s mean to everybody, especially jon by the end, and he just doesn’t come across as likable to anyone except the people that want to relate to him (because they’ve got like issues with their mother and like get lonely sometimes or whatever) or people that think him being needlessly mean is a like crazy character change to be all like badass and cool or whatever. like he’s literally just mean when there’s no reason to be, and just because he’s in a bad situation doesn’t mean i have to like him, because we never really see him as anything except whiney or mean

Warning for season 5 negativity ahead, particularly re: Jon and Martin’s relationship. Stop here if you don’t want to read about it!!

Okay to start, I have a lot of issues with the writing of Jon and Martin’s relationship in season 5. This isn’t because I expect a picture-perfect relationship or have any interest in villainizing any characters; there were just so many moments of “??? what the fuck why would you say that,” on top of major unresolved flaws that were never treated as flaws. For instance: Martin asking Jon if killing him would have helped anything in 167, Martin telling Jon–a burn scar victim–how gross he finds burn scars in 169, Martin barely blinking at Basira telling Jon she should have let Daisy kill him in 177, “God forbid the creepy ever stops” in 191, the running joke of how impatient he was when Jon needed to stop and make a statement when that need was a direct result of Jon’s trauma and a bodily change forced on him…

And then the entire smiting arc, which went absolutely nowhere, but involved Martin barreling past Jon’s discomfort with killing in 166, getting angry at him for refusing to kill someone for the sake of his own jealousy in 168, getting angry at him AGAIN for refusing to kill in 174…only to throw the absolutely baffling line of “I’ve been out there with you. I saw the kick you got out of making them scream for once. You weren’t supposed to enjoy it that much!” at Jon in TMA 194.

The bickering and impatience is so constant that I’ve seen fans insist that, well, there’s a lot of time we don’t hear, maybe they’re not bickering then? But I’m looking at it from a writing and storytelling perspective, and I put the blame on the writing more than on any particular character. In the behind-the-scenes, the creators talked about how writing those conversations was the easy part that they could just wing and not bother editing, so they could focus their energy on the soundscaping and tech side. A lot of what I listed above was explicitly meant to be comic relief without a thought to how uncomfortable it is in the context of a relationship. And as someone who’s listened to a lot of RQ content, it was a bit telling when I could straight-up recognize Alex’s sense of humor or even snippets of things he’d said about Jon in the past coming out of Martin’s mouth.

So back to 161 and 162!

I see a lot of people insist that the issues with Jon and Martin’s relationship in season 5 are “it’s because it’s a new relationship” or “it’s because both are so traumatized, what do you expect!” However, none of the stuff listed above are connected to being new or traumatized! Martin KNOWS Jon struggles with his humanity; even if Martin is traumatized, why would he call Jon creepy to his face? Since when does Martin prioritize his own boredom over Jon’s suffering? HOW can Martin just shrug off anyone saying they should have let Jon be murdered? How could ANYONE knowing the extreme of Jon’s self-hatred propose the “if you had died, would it make things better” hypothetical?

In contrast, 161-162 (along with the s5 trailer) hits a perfect balance of convincing, genuine care and love, while still having conflict directly connected to the strain and trauma of their situation and new relationship. We see Jon in a horrible low, and are allowed to feel his pain without it being played as funny or inconvenient. Martin is sympathetic but doesn’t know what to do with it. He makes jabs hinting at his impatience–“I’m good at waiting”–but doesn’t act as if Jon’s just being miserable on purpose to inconvenience him. There’s also more balance in the conflict: Jon snaps at Martin about how “not everyone can just cut themselves off from their feelings,” exposing old hurts about Martin’s distance in s4, but immediately apologizes. We see an imperfect couple being imperfect people, not wanting to hurt each other but sometimes stumbling into it. We also see the way they do hurt each other being framed as such, rather than treated as a joke. We even see the awkwardness of the new relationship with Jon’s fumbling knock knock joke.

It also just has SO many good moments between them. Jon’s fiercely protective “I won’t let it,” Martin’s eager preparations for their quest and Jon’s warm fondness over it, “It’s quiet, here, and I have you.” Those are all on the level of “let me know if you see any good cows,” to me, and mean twice as much given the darkness of the situation.

(I am also convinced that without the pandemic difficulties, the writing quality of 161 and 162 would have continued: they wouldn’t have had to “wing” Jon and Martin’s conversations, other characters could have been involved to suggest the “should we have killed Jon?” hypotheticals, etc.)

P.S. If I see anyone vaguing about “people demanding perfection from queer ships” or “you just don’t know how real relationships work” or “omg I can’t believe people are calling Martin abusive” I will pour glue in their shoes and glitter in their sock drawer.