Hot take, but I don’t think anyone who hasn’t been told to their face with the actual words ‘you’re not human’ deserves to have any opinion on Jon and his story arc.
Do you think Norris and Chester would start randomly playing Daisy Bell, like the version from the first computer to sing, and it creeps out everyone in the office
Or is that too disgustingly romantic even for them jxndbd
Hey bestiessss. If you excuse your grandmothers neglect of you and excuse an eighteen year old guy bullying you and cite it LITERALLY that it wasn’t because you were smart or clever, that you were in fact a ‘DEEPLY ANNOYING CHILD’, I kind of question the conceit that you believe you’re better than other people due to being in academia. I actually kind of think maybe you have self worth issues and are faking your entire identity out of a need to protect yourself from the fact that you have no proof anyone will ever like you. Disdain for others is actually totally understandable. Hope this helps.
Also I’m like. A hundred percent sure that the only thing that would make the others not hate Jon or see him as a monster would be his utter and complete submission and resignation of his person to their control. Y’know. Like the Web.
I’m gonna show y’all two photos and a transcript and then I’m gonna ask y’all to think about exactly what kind of connections can be made from them, alright?
[Photo IDs : screen caps of two The Magnus Archives episodes, the first being for episode 79, Hide And Seek, and episode 81, A Guest For Mr. Spider. In brief, I highlighted the dates the episodes were set. February 16th 2017 and February 18th 2017 respectively. End ID.]
Now. Here’s the quote.
[Photo ID : transcript from Episode 81, A Guest For Mr. Spider, of Georgie verbatim asking “You… looking for a new job yet?” End ID.]
Now that that’s out of the way… let’s talk about the presumption that Jon made his way to Georgie’s covered in Leitner’s blood. Or even just appearing otherwise disheveled and traumatized.
I will forgive people for not realizing this, but it’s apparently canonical that Leitner dying and Jon recording his statement about his childhood trauma was two days apart. If that. So here we have Jon in a state of total mental breakdown. Being informed he’s beholden to some evil entity and becoming a tool for it to use for evil by the first person he ever hated as a child and then seeing the bashed in remains of his head just barely 48 hours prior. Going to the only place he believes he could be safe. And after a brief convo about dishes and the cat, he’s asked if he’s trying… to find… a new… job…
I’m not gonna speculate about what happened between the moment Jon showed up on Georgie’s doorstep to her coming home from wherever she was. I’m gonna talk about facts and the fact is if he gave any indication that he was in distress, her asking that would be seen as a dick move. Now. The fact that she even alludes to not believing him a bit on in the conversation leads me to think it was apparent he was not okay, that things weren’t okay, and he desperately needed help.
But she still asks if he’s looking for a new job.
Do I think, potentially, this was just her way of broaching the subject in a way that won’t put his hackles up? Maybe. But I find that fairly hard to believe. Even with all her reassurance that it’s fine he’s staying there. Cause that’s not what the tone of her voice indicated. And that’s not what her eventual bringing up of her disbelief about an ‘employment dispute’ indicated.
Georgie Barker let Jon into her home and not two days later asked when he’d be out while condescending to him about losing his job, home, and possessions.
It’s very VERY clear here that she had no idea what happened. It’s very clear she wanted to figure out why he was in her home so he would get out. There is no concern for his well-being beyond getting him able to leave. Yet we’re expected to believe that she’s a kind individual with his best interests at heart.
Her next appearance is to be angry at him for… what… reading paper into an old recorder? Staring at paper and not sleeping — on a couch, I might add — for four days? She says she has no clue, yet sees Jon act ~weird~ about paper for four days and comes to a conclusion, while right, has no logical sense unless he’s completely losing it. But instead of understanding, she berates him for it. She knows something is wrong with him but all she does is tell him to quit it and get over it.
At this point, I would be remiss if I didn’t say that Jon was absolutely taking advantage of Georgie’s hospitality. But truer to the point, she never should’ve let him in her home in the first place. If she was not capable of or willing to help him navigate his issues, seeing him on her doorstep and in distress, she should’ve turned him away immediately. Or at the least tell him exactly how long he was welcome. Which was, as seen, two nights.
I’m not gonna go through every other instance of Georgie in season 3. It’d take forever and I think I’ve made my point. My point being that if you’re gonna offer assistance to someone in dire straits, it might be kinder to tell them fuck off from the outset rather than tell them at every step how much of a burden they are for even existing in your presence. If your ~boundaries~ are so fucking important then maybe enforce them to begin with instead of acting holier-than-thou.
Still not over how Jon’s ‘past the event horizon’ moment, the one that fully separated him and othered him and was purposefully a parallel to Jonah FUCKING Magnus, was him not wanting to die.
And that’s why it pisses me off that people always say no one said Jon should’ve stayed dead. Cause they didn’t have to. The narrative conflated Jon breathing and speaking to him being a monster. Which is a bad thing to be. So regardless of if the girls said the words out loud, the narrative flat out says Jon morally should’ve stayed dead. That is just the truth.
Thinking about how Martin’s so silly with his all being surprised about Jon, when the whole 198, 199, and 200 Jon is definitely using his “I feel guilty, time to sacrifice myself to save the world” voice like. Of course Jon was going to eschew the plan and sacrifice himself anyway. Of course. That’s why he apologized sincerely to all of them in the hallway after they make their plan. He knows he will betray them all one last time.
Thinking about how none of the other survivors really understand Jon. How none of them realize that deep down just how used Jon feels. He didn’t want to end the world, Jonah Magnus laid the groundwork for him as a child. It was inevitable, and Jon could do nothing about it. The description in 199 he gives to Martin of how it felt to read the words… even Martin when he was being led astray by Peter wasn’t quite this violently used.
Thinking about how it’s eerily similar, the guilt Jon has, to how someone feels after a sexual assault. That horrible inability to escape it. That it happened to you, and you could do nothing about it, and you just have to keep living with that body. And it’s tragic that no one took the time to understand how hurt he was over it all. They all had their preconceived visions of what Jon was and missed the core of Jon’s hurt and that’s why the series had to end like this. Because Jon needed to take his power back and this was the only way he knew how.
Thinking about how Basira and Melanie and Georgie and even Martin in those final moments talk about “we all make mistakes” but Jon didn’t make mistakes he was used and this distinction is so critical and they all miss it and god it kills me to hear him. He’s really just a shell of himself through most of S5 but particularly so in those last few episodes leading up to 200. That intro scene is the most fire Jon’s had since…. since the coma really.
Thinking about how when Martin throws out another “how much of you is even left now” its such a horrible take because it just makes Jon into this ‘other’ thing… like is Martin even in love with Jon? The eye is in him, sure, but Jon didn’t change or become different. The fears have always been marking him, using him for their own ends, that’s why Jonah picked Jon in the first place. How Jon’s truly been used by all the fears (which he has) so of course Jon isn’t going to come out of this okay.
Thinking about the slight wavering crack in Jon’s voice, even as the Eye takes hold of him, trying to convince Martin “It’s still me, I’m still Jon” trying desperately to believe it himself. And the reality is that he is still Jon. This is always who Jon has been - someone on the edge of monstrous, and when you’re standing on the edge all it takes is a push to fall.
I’ve just realized what bugs me the most when I’m comparing canon and fanon Martin. It’s the fact that in canon he never really changed.
I’ve said this before, but right now it really hit me. The Martin we see in early seasons is exactly the same Martin we see in season 5. He had always been like this.
I feel like the reason people talk about his “change” in season 5 is because up to that moment we’ve mainly heard Martin interacting with Jon, the man he had a crush on. Of course he’s gonna be stuttering and awkward! But when talking with Tim for example, Martin is his usual self - unless Jon is mentioned, of course.
Also there was this whole thing with the Lonely, where he got depressed and isolated himself from everyone. But for some reason it wasn’t a catalyst for his character development - when he got out of it, when he got out of the Lonely, he stayed the same as before. He just gained some self-awareness.
Season 5 Martin acts this way because at that point he has an idea of what’s happening and isn’t so anxious about his surroundings anymore, and, like every person that’s not being absolutely crushed by guilt at that time (Jon), his main objective is to get revenge for all the suffering he had to go through. Every other person from the archive crew would’ve done the same if they were in his position.
And there’s also the matter of him falling out of love with Jon / starting to see him more as a weapon, a monster, or just “his boyfriend” rather than a person.
Also. And maybe it’s just me. But like. If you’re jokingly calling your significant other ‘the Antichrist’ behind their back to someone who legitimately tried to kill them on multiple occasions? I don’t think you’re actually as understanding and communicative about your boundaries and needs as you think you are.
Y’know. I would go deeper into why I hate Georgie Barker. But I get tired of having to defend why I hate a fictional female character and also that’s probably something I need to deal with in therapy. Not a public forum.
Anyway. So a few sessions back my therapist said something that sparked a realization in me regarding my opinion of Georgie and her ✨boundaries✨ and it’s that she was literally bad at them.
Boundaries only work if you uphold them.
What I mean is that when she clearly decided to stop contacting him after his coma/death, she should never have stepped foot on Institute ground. She should have never had a single conversation with him regarding anything. That was her boundary. Allowing him to be in her life. And she broke it herself.
More than that, by even going there to pick up Melanie, she broke the main boundary that got her to be angry at Jon in the first place! Going to the very place she SAW AS A EVIL.
You cannot have it both ways. You cannot expect someone to follow a boundary and not keep it yourself.
So no. I don’t think Georgie was as mature and levelheaded and morally upstanding and all that as everyone else specifically because she wasn’t. At all.
I love Melanie King as a character. She is brave and ethical and justifiably angry in so many cases. Even when I think she’s being too mean or irrational I can understand where it is coming from usually. The thing is, no matter how many times I listen to this show I cannot figure out how Melanie being stuck in the institute is Jon’s fault. She says it is his fault multiple times, not just once out of anger but she insists so many times and I just can’t make my brain do the acrobatics to see how that can possibly be true.
She came in to make her statement and they didn’t get along but he still agreed to look into her statement. She chose to come back and asked Jon for more help, access to the library, and again even though they don’t like each other, he pulled strings to give her access. When she comes back the next time Jon is already on the run, he’s nowhere near her. He didn’t offer her the job and he didn’t convince her to take the job. Each time Melanie came to the archives before getting hired was her choice, he didn’t even ask her to come back as a follow up. Melanie is offered the job by Elias and Martin tries to stop it but he doesn’t try that hard and she wants the job and wouldn’t be talked out of it. The moment she signed the contract she was trapped and it had nothing to do with Jon.
I’ll fully respect anyone who wants to take canon material and run off into their own little fanon corner where they flesh out paltry characters and relationships into something they want to play with. I will NOT respect the person who does this and absolutely insists the author meant it that way from the start and everyone else just doesn’t get it.
WHO THE FUCK SAID MELANIE NEED TO BE SYMPATHETIC TO JON? WHERE? CAUSE I SURE AS FUCK DIDN’T HEAR IT. AND TELL ME WHY SHE’S ACTING LIKE IT’S HIS FAULT SHE’S HAD A ROUGH TIME OF IT WHEN SHEEEEEE WAS THE ONE WHO CHOSE TO GO TO THE INSTITUTE TO GIVE HER STATEMENT???
THREE
FUCKING
TIMES
????
I HATE THIS I HATE THIS FUCKING STUPID PODCAST AND ITS BULLSHIT NONSENSICAL CHARACTER MOMENTS THAT HAVE NO BEARING IN REALITYYYYYYYYY
No. I just can’t get over the cognitive dissonance of what we were told and heard versus what actually happened.
The entire time, Jon was judged and dehumanized for perpetuating and inflicting trauma on people. His actions were solely his own and he had to own up to them in order to regain trust. He was rightfully labeled a monster because he had power and abused it.
AND. FUCKING. YET.
At the end, when we get to the final decision, that’s exactly what the others decided was the right and moral thing to do. To pass on and perpetuate the same suffering they’d been subjected to BEFORE the ritual even fully realized. To unknown universes.
“But that’s all hypothetical, and the ritual could be prevented by those other universes!”
Okay but like. Did they just forget how awful things were for people? That people still suffered and died and were irrevocably affected by the Fears? That THEY were? That the reason they were even trying to stop it was because they know how horrible it was?
And they were just. Going. To pass. It on.
So, yeah, no fucking shit Jon was like, ‘fuck y’all, I’m going to kill them right here and now’. BECAUSE HE WAS TOLD AND SHOWN THE WHOLE TIME THAT WHAT HE DID AND WHAT HE BECAME WAS NOTHING MORE THAN A MONSTER. THAT HIS ACTIONS DESERVED NO FORGIVENESS.
WHY WOULD HE EVER BE OKAY WITH LETTING ANYONE ELSE BECOME THAT? EVEN HYPOTHETICALLY???
He learned and listened and took in every criticism and judgment and went ‘alright, bet’. And they still didn’t see that he was fighting and fighting against the thing that told him to enjoy and relish in what he caused. They still didn’t allow him his humanity. They STILL SAW HIS CHOICE AS HIM BEING POWER HUNGRY AND INHUMANE.
So yeah. No. I’m sorry, but the fact they saw allowing the Fears to spread if it meant their world survived as the right and moral choice completely doesn’t make any sense with how they viewed Jon as a perpetrator of their and other’s suffering and how he should’ve just not done any of that.
Y’all can argue with me if y’all want and I will listen and if there’s things I misremembered or misinterpreted then go right ahead and point them out. I legitimately only listened to the last season once and the fourth twice. And that was a good year and a half ago. But this is how I feel and this is what I got from it.
Every criticism about Jon’s personality HIS PERSONALITY NOT HIS ACTIONS THESE ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS is the fandom hating autistic people and their excuse of other character’s hatred of Jon’s personality AGAIN HIS PERSONALITY NOT ACTIONS only cements this.
Genuinely, if y’all don’t like season 1 Jon and find season 2 Jon hilarious, just say you hate autistic people and go die.
MAG 135, Dark Matter, cause when Manuela said, “If the words of my parents hold any truth, then God is the true monster, and ‘let there be light’ the most evil words ever spoken,” I FUCKING FELT THAT.
making every conversation into being about The Character with the same reliability and conviction of a youth pastor going “you know who else partied? our lord and savior”
God listening to Jon turning Jordan this time hit a lot harder. I didn’t really think that hard on it before, just thought “hey that’s fucked up. Jon clearly panicked seeing someone he knew suffer”
But this time I realized something. Jon has been watching this man in his dreams for years now. Every night he’s seen him suffering while he was unable to move, unable to help. And now here he is again. Jordan suffering, Jon watching. Except this time he can do something. And so he does cause he’s so desperate to HELP
I don’t even know what it is about Martin, but I absolutely hate his guts. Like there’s nothing he’s explicitly done to warrant my hatred, but his vibes are just rancid.
He plays dumb and makes other people sympathize with him. He’s all like “I’m sorry 🥺👉👈 I’m trying my best, I just want to make you proud” you’re a grown man, stop acting so incompetent, don’t play the victim for normal criticism from your manager. (And yes, I’m talking about Jon. There is no way Jon decided to use Martin as his punching bag and yelled at him all the time, was he likely harsher than necessary? Probably, he was probably kinda rude and passive aggressive, but he definitely didn’t yell at Martin. You can tell how surprised Martin was when Jon yelled at him about Trevor Herbert, that was likely the first time Jon ever raised his voice at him.)
And here’s the thing, I feel like I should like him, I grew up having to be a caretaker for my mother, so I feel like I should be able to relate or understand him, but I just… don’t. In theory I can understand that Martin is manipulative because he had to be to his mother, I can understand that, but in practice, I cannot sympathize with him at all, and just kinda hate him.
Also he just feels very ableist to me, he gives off the impression of someone who always knows what’s best, would tell someone with depression to try not being sad, would tell a disabled person that they’re just not try hard enough, will always play the victim, especially if the other person is “mentally unstable” or something. (He’d be one of those caregivers that constantly demeans his patient, but everyone would call him so “strong” and “supportive” for dealing with them)
I always hate the interpretation of Martin that he’d be so great and caring and understanding to Jon, as if he wouldn’t 100% just tell Jon he’s not trying hard enough. I mean that’s half of season 5, just Martin telling Jon he’s not trying enough, not trying to help enough, not trying to be happy enough, not trying to be human enough. I’m pretty sure there’s not a single time that Martin tries to understand Jon and where he’s coming from. He’ll try to force Jon to say what he’s feeling, but he never actually cares to understand.
If Martin wasn’t doing his weird Lonely arc thing in season 4 he would have been right there beside Melanie and Basira telling Jon that “actually, all you have to do to overcome addiction is to stop being addicted. It’s not that hard.”
Anyways, sorry for such a long rant, also to be clear, it’s not as if I just sit around and gnash my teeth thinking about how much I hate him, I just wanted to get this off my chest. If you enjoy Martin as a character more power to you, I just can’t stand the guy.
YEA I DEF GET THIS Oh my god ok I. I like him. He fascinates me. He is a fucking cunt whos very bad at understanding how other ppl feel and thinks he knows best and this is SHOWN in s5. I like him a lot but goddamn he has FLAWS. SO MANY GOOD GOD. The fandom ignores it and it pisses me off so much bc theyre all so quick to make georgie jons horrible ex who didnt understand him for some reason WHEN NOTHING IN CANON SHOWS THAT BUT EVERYTHING SHOWS THAT MARTIN EASILY COULD FILL THAT ROLE. Sry anyways this is a frequent annoyance lol - rosette
Jonathan sims is like. I don’t think I’ve ever loved anyone in my life. I’ve loved everyone I’ve ever met and it eats me alive. None of this is my fault how DARE you be even a little mad at me. All of this is my fault how are you even looking me in the eye. Nobody cares about me and I don’t blame them. I will drop everyone to save the people that hurt me, even at the cost of my own life. I will never forgive them. I’ve never truly connected with anyone in my life. These people who I barely even know made such a deep impact on me I will kill a woman with her face to avenge her and steal his autonomy to save him. I never wanted to hurt anyone. I want to hurt people so badly. This is a woman I care about deeply, and I never forgave her, and never plan to. I will advocate for her friend to kill her, and I will grieve her once she’s gone. I can’t stop being open. I’ve never been open about my emotions in my entire life. I never want to be around anyone. I’m so tired of being alone. I don’t think I’ve ever loved anyone. How do you know if you love someone? Is it just caring about someone? What defines love? Am I doing it wrong? Is there something wrong with me? Elias, am I still human? Was I ever human? I deserve how people treat me. I hate them for it. I shouldn’t hate them for it, I can’t even blame them. But I do. I do. I want to destroy everything. I just want things to be okay. I want to be loved and accepted and I will never believe anyone who tells me they do. I wish I was dead. I never want to die. I deserve to die. I’m supposed to be dead. I don’t want to die. But I do . But I don’t. Have I ever cared about anyone but myself? Would I even know? If I died, would anything bad happen? Or would it just be sad? If I died, how many people would be relieved? If I died, and nobody missed me, could I forgive them for that? Have I ever forgave anyone? Have I ever gotten over anything? Have I ever stopped being angry? Did I ever move on? Will I ever move on? What am I even moving on from? Did any of it even matter? I don’t think I’ve ever loved someone. I think I was supposed to die. I think everyone would be better off for it. I don’t want to die.
I really don’t like the way Georgie acts in season four. Like, your friend just DIED and you say that you wish they didn’t come back?!?!? If you need space just say that don’t start victim blaming them :/
Y’know it fucks with me how much Jon being an orphan informs everything about him, considering it’s a throwaway aspect of his backstory that is never mentioned or talked about again.
Do you think that’s where his need to know started? Like. Even before Mr. Spider. Do you think that when he started to realize and recognize that he had a different home life than his peers that he started to ask his grandmother questions? Questions she would refuse to answer. Like. How high was his father when he fell? What routine surgery was it that ended his mother’s life? Questions only a child would ask because a child’s thought would be ‘what if I ended up that high up or needing that surgery?’ How could he prevent his own death unless he knew what to avoid? But because she wouldn’t answer, would tell him he was being tactless and rude, he would seek it elsewhere. Giving him a lifelong need to research and know on his own terms, because he was taught no one else would give it to him. Which also lead to being unable to GRIEVE HIS PARENTS. She never talked about it, from what I remember of his personal statement. She was too wrapped up in her own grief, her own pain, to care for his. And what else would lead Jon to his guilt but the fact he never learned GRIEF.
I’ve already said I’m going to the mental hospital willingly, you can stop pulling on me.
It seems really clear to me. Don’t make the switch. Everyone in this world does and you force the Fears to fucking eat each other. Kill them. Otherwise they’re going to kill billions more and oh by the way this is theonly way they can be killed.
If billions are going to die EITHER WAY and this is the only way that their killers can go down with them pull the trigger Piglet.
But no. Somehow these other universe people are “hypothetical”, whereas the billions of people you never will meet on this current Earth are somehow realer.
Stay in the dying world. Sink your teeth into it and when you die know you are tearing a bloody wound into your killer.
“I don’t agree that it’s clearcut that it’s worth the risk of sacrificing everyone on earth in the hope that this is the only place where the fears currently exist.”
–
I actually don’t care if the Fears exists elsewhere. I quite frankly assume they do exist in multiple different versions all across the infinite dimensions. The math doesn’t change.
Option 1: Die with the world. The Fears eat 8 billion people + the millions of others they ate in the past. The Fears have consumed (Reality 1′s past millions) + (Reality 1′s victims caught in the Fearpocalypse)
Option 2a: Set the Fears loose. The Reality 1 Fears eat millions in the alternate reality in the years it takes for someone to succeed in that reality by bringing them in and they eat however many billions are on Earth at that time. The next reality does not pass them on. The R1 Fears have now consumed (Reality 1′s past millions) + (Reality 1′s casualties in the Fearpocalypse) + (Reality 2′s past millions) + (Reality 2′s victims caught in the Fearpocalypse)
Option 2b: Set the Fears loose. The Reality 1 Fears eat millions in the alternate reality in the years it takes for someone to succeed in that reality by bringing them in and they eat however many billions are on Earth at that time. This reality passes the Fears on. The R1 Fears have now consumed (Reality 1′s past millions) + (Reality 1′s casualties in the Fearpocalypse) + (Reality 2′s past millions) + (Reality 2′s casualties in the Fearpocalypse) + (Reality 3′s past millions) + (Reality 3′s casualties in the Fearpocalypse) + do you see where I’m going with this?
If we assume there are other Fears it still doesn’t change the math. Either the Fears can only infect world that don’t have other Fears lurking about, in which case every single death is directly attributable to our Heroes, or the Fears can infect worlds that do have other Fears in them, in which case our Heroes have only added to the death toll of that world until the Fearpocalypse occurs.
No matter how you slice it, allowing the Fears to live only adds to the suffering.
Even if there is NEVER another Fearpocalypse in any other reality.
If another Fearpocalypse doesn’t happen, there is no way to kill or stop the Fears. They will keep picking off one-in-thirty year after year, millennia after millennia. Eventually the total will outweigh Reality 1′s death toll.
The whole world dying in only 1 reality is the LOWEST death toll possible. Therefore, it is the only ethical option.
Thinking about how Basira has to believe that passively allowing murder/horror is different and better than causing it yourself, because if they’re the same, then she’s responsible for all of Daisy’s crimes.
Martin is very internally in-tune and good at identifying exactly what he’s feeling and why. But he’s cagey with that information, and or at the very least, the truth/meat of those feelings. He’ll tell you, but he’ll leave the deeper meaning out, cards always close to his chest until he knows what you’re planning on doing with it. He could write a think piece on exactly what makes him tick, and he is absolutely not going to show it to you. You’ll get vulnerable Martin Blackwood, though, easy! He’ll have a deep heart to heart any day! You’ll just leave with next to nothing on him.
Meanwhile, Jon has absolutely no idea what any of his emotions mean or where they came from, but he also can’t stop himself from feeling them constantly all the time, and with no words for them, they’re just leaking all over the place. but he’s incapable of vocalizing anything, so he expresses instead through stubborn and fast actions with little to no thought or logic behind them, operating only on gut feeling, immediate reaction, and high emotionally charged choices when the chips are down. If you tried to have a heart to heart with Jon he would explode.
I’m so, so aware that Jonny has said he never intended for Jon to be canonically autistic (and this is not a way to diagnose any real people either)
But then…*gestures vaguely at this post* look at him. Look at this autistic man who doesn’t get hunger cues and thinks the world is crumbling around him until he gets a sandwich. Tell me this man doesn’t have sensory issues. He keeps earplugs because Tim is loud, I swear
2am for me almost and i’m here yelling about autistic jonathan sims, but i deadass just yelled “EXACTLY!”
While it may not have been intentional, all of his traits together make him so easily familiar to other neurodivergent people. i for one feel like any time he does anything, i find myself just pointing in recognition with my jaw on the floor. i love that autistic man
i just adore what jonny said in one of the Q&A’s about how, even if he didn’t intend something, if it’s in the text, it can be interpreted and read into, even if that text was a mistake/not intentional. it just makes me smile. cause we’re gonna interpret babbeyyyyyyyy ☝🏻
for goodness sake he is the poster child for hyperfixating. we should give him an award
WHO THE FUCK SAID MELANIE NEED TO BE SYMPATHETIC TO JON? WHERE? CAUSE I SURE AS FUCK DIDN’T HEAR IT. AND TELL ME WHY SHE’S ACTING LIKE IT’S HIS FAULT SHE’S HAD A ROUGH TIME OF IT WHEN SHEEEEEE WAS THE ONE WHO CHOSE TO GO TO THE INSTITUTE TO GIVE HER STATEMENT???
THREE
FUCKING
TIMES
????
I HATE THIS I HATE THIS FUCKING STUPID PODCAST AND ITS BULLSHIT NONSENSICAL CHARACTER MOMENTS THAT HAVE NO BEARING IN REALITYYYYYYYYY
You know what. I’m coming back to this. Cause seriously.
There’s one thing I viscerally dislike about TMA that has nothing to do with the characters or plot holes and that’s how so much of it is left outside the fucking podcast.
There are so many illusions to moments we don’t see that supposedly inform actions and reactions that pisses me off cause I’m sorry but I just cannot buy it. Especially when these moments are directly contradicted BY THOSE ACTIONS AND REACTIONS.
So I’m sure we’re supposed to infer that Daisy or Basira at some point in season four asked her to be sympathetic to him (do you think she’d be around Georgie if Georgie asked her to be? do you think Melanie ever saw Martin once in season four? no. don’t be absurd). But I can only see Basira ever saying that ONCE. During the time frame between him BEING STABBED by Melanie and the nonconsentual surgery he performed at Basira’s behest. And by the time Daisy came back, I don’t see why Daisy would even bring it up to Melanie, cause Melanie had already begun to be ‘civil’ towards him at that point. But if Daisy had just cause, it wouldn’t have been more than once either. But who knows. Maybe twice is more than enough.
No. At this point. I’m going to assume this is a direct reference to the fandom at large. That this is the writers agreeing with the fandom that any act against Jon by the people in his life is righteous and just and needs no explanation. Jon existing as a whole around actual humans is justification enough.
No but I need to talk about Sam Winchester and Jon Sims and how they are the exact same niche character created specifically to drive me insane.
Here you have two characters destined from young ages (very VERY young in Sam’s case) to end the world. Hand picked by forces beyond their control. Molded into what they were to become through coercion and ignorance. Here you have two characters trying to figure out why these significant deaths in their lives happened, leading them onto that path. Stealing the comfort of normalcy from them and alienating them from humanity. Here you have these two characters coming to terms with inhuman abilities they desperately want to use for good. Even when the cost of these abilities becomes something monstrous. Even when it becomes clear no one around them sees them as the same person anymore. Here you have these two characters who go to their deaths having lost every ounce of agency of their lives.
And they weren’t supposed to be sympathetic.
Both of their corruption arcs were supposed to be cut and dry. Sam was supposed to be fully lost to his demon blood. Jon was supposed to gladly take the throne and be consumed by power.
Neither of their needs to prevent the pain and suffering through the apocalypses they caused (or would’ve in Sam’s case) meant anything in the face of what they were chosen to become. Vessels. Catalysts for torment. Anti-Christs who people hated and feared. And that is what drives me insane. That these two characters, within their stories, who had trauma after trauma thrown at them, were made to be vilified and seen as weak willed freaks of nature.
I don’t know what the point of this is. Maybe there isn’t one. Maybe it’s 1am and I’m just sad. Maybe it’s 1am and I’m just angry. I don’t know. What I do know though is that Sam Winchester and Jon Sims deserved better and I will fist fight Eric Kripke and Johnny Sims in the parking lot of a Dennys.
I’ve never seen it being discussed but mag199 is one of the most important episodes in the show and is crucial for understanding Jon’s character and his choices.
Characters here need to make a choice and everyone gives their take on situation. Except for Jon. The first people to talk are everyone present in the room and Jon is the LAST person who says something here.
And when he says that they actually have more options, his words immediately get dismissed by Melanie and Martin. Through the whole conversation the only words Jon gets to say are some unnecessary corrections and weak protests. But he never gets to say his piece fully.
Again, the person who’s the only one able to change world back, is the last one who gets a word to say.
From Jon’s POV, here he is, again, viewed only as a tool. Here he is, again, not the one to actually decide what to do with the world. He is, again, forced to do something he doesn’t want and his own will does not matter.
And this is crucial for his actions in mag200. He never wanted the option everyone else agreed on, and still he is expected to follow the path that was carved out for him. He never chose to be marked by the Web, he never chose to end the world. And he didn’t want to let the fears free. This choice was made for him.
But still, for the first time HE is the one holding all the cards now and finally, FINALLY be the only one to decide how to play them.
And he does just that.
i think the tags from @cosmic-crunch should be immortalized
It was in the way your grandmother hesitated when calling your name, as though primed for a different one, and the fact you weren’t him wore at her as surely as you did simply by existing.
From a young age you knew you were cursed.
It was in the way that, by the will of some cosmic force, you weren’t allowed to keep your parents. Not even the memories, as you were just too young to have any that last aside from their ends.
From a young age you knew you were hated.
It was in the way that someone ten years your senior never once relented in causing you harm over the years you knew him, your grandmother never once intervening despite its regularity.
From a young age you knew the world was unjust.
It was in the way it should have been you, not the one who hurt you, to die. It should have been you and the fact you lived was a crime you could never repay but with your future as collateral.
From a young age you knew you weren’t meant for this world and you feel like everyone else knows it too.
It’s in the way they talk about you behind your back and in front of your face. No matter how civil you try to be. No matter how gregarious and magnanimous. You know you deserve nothing and so do they.
So you stop. Stop trying to be wanted or loved. Stop trying to care for anyone but yourself. It never got you anywhere anyway. Instead you turn to knowing and learning. Maybe you can understand why what happened to the poor unfortunate who took your place happened. Maybe you can understand why the world is unjust. Maybe knowing will give you a place in the world, no matter how small or awful.
Your name is Jonathan Sims and there was never any hope for you to not become what you did. It was already written for you before you even started.
It’s not even that I’m a Martin Blackwood hater, but it’s just that when there’s someone who’s told you multiple times and shown you very clearly they don’t like you and don’t want to be your friend, and who’s also visibly very afraid of spiders, don’t try to convince them that “actually spiders are great and pretty and environment’s best friend :))”.
Like what the hell, man. Boundaries. If someone I hated and had told multiple times that I didn’t want to interact with them beyond anything professional tried to convince me my phobia was irrational and actually the Thing I Hate is pretty and harmless I’d send them to their death without a second thought. Completely get Jon on that one.
It’s not even that I’m a Martin Blackwood hater, but it’s just that when there’s someone who’s told you multiple times and shown you very clearly they don’t like you and don’t want to be your friend, and who’s also visibly very afraid of spiders, don’t try to convince them that “actually spiders are great and pretty and environment’s best friend :))”.
Like what the hell, man. Boundaries. If someone I hated and had told multiple times that I didn’t want to interact with them beyond anything professional tried to convince me my phobia was irrational and actually the Thing I Hate is pretty and harmless I’d send them to their death without a second thought. Completely get Jon on that one.
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Actually @levaagrace that’s quite a good point. Martin is a bitch. And he’d probably do that on purpose.
This post was specifically about Jon’s point of view and how unsurprising the amount of hate he gives to Martin in season 1 is. But you’re making a very good point, and it’s showing how much the popular fanon depiction of Martin is different from the actual, canon version of him, especially in the early seasons (although tbh he’s mischaracterised heavily in all seasons).
I’m constantly seeing season 1 Martin depicted as a lovesick idiot who crushes heavily on Jon and just thinks of giving him tea and doing good work to impress him and get him to like him. But that’s because Jon is a bitch too, and he’s unreliable as fuck when it comes to narration. Jon thinks of Martin as this version (maybe minus the crush part, that came later because of Jmart shipping), while in reality he’s just subtly bitchy so Jon can’t pick up on it.
I drew this way back when the series ended and only now have decided to post it. Kismet means I only think of MAG 200 when I hear these lyrics so now I’m subjecting y’all to it. Okay thank you :)
Through this listen through (restarted cause anniversaries) I’m noticing something I kinda brushed off as like. Writing issues. Namely how in these first six episodes, a lot of the statement givers backtrack on things they said. I kinda thought it was a weird quirk of like. Having written something but realizing it didn’t exactly fit, y’know? Cause it wasn’t like they actively changed anything about the event. Not lying. But misremembering or overstating. But now I’m thinking. Maybe. That would be a point in WHY Jon doesn’t automatically accept the statements. Like. We know he knows they really happened later on, but in a first go around, you would think MAYBE it would lead you to assume MAYBE it’s reasonable for him to think ‘well they can’t even keep parts of their story straight, what else could they be mistaking,’ y’know? But so many people position Jon as automatically dismissing them for no reason. When that’s verifiably untrue. Sure the narrative leads you to that, so I can’t be that bothered, but like……… textually, it’s just not on.
Not me planning on looking at every interaction Jon had with live statement givers to analyze how he actually talked to them and not how people perceived him to talk to them. Because no, actually, Jon didn’t call Naomi a liar or delusional to her fucking face.
And now let’s look at the next non-archival assistant (at the time) one. Melanie King.
And for good measure, how about Dr. Lionel Elliot?
Notice anything? It’s that he apologizes the third time for the recording set up. Which the other two IMMEDIATELY complained about. It’s that every time he says something could be a lie, that they would STILL LOOK INTO IT and get back to them. Giving them reassurance that they’re not being overlooked or ignored, if not believed. It’s that half the time they question it all themselves. It’s that he returns the energy he’s given.
I may do season 2 next but like. Please tell me I don’t have to explain what I’m getting at. Jon is perfectly cordial to them. And anything he says to their faces is reasonable even though he ‘knew’ they were true because why wouldn’t his skeptic act work to occlude them as well? Because. We all know what happens the singular time he tells and reassure a live statement giver that he believes them.
On Naomi’s statement and once again pointing out that he only acknowledged HER dismissal of it as being all in her head. It might’ve ended with her feeling like she wasn’t believed, but she dismissed herself first.
I repeat that Jon only ever returns other people’s energy. He meets them where they are.
“Jon has no empathy for statement givers in season 1.”
So anyways. Jon did not inform Laura Popham that the majority of her recollection of the events of her sister’s death in Lost Johns Cave were verifiably false on several accounts with full evidence to back it up.
Anyway, Jon would never be able to recover from his trauma in a ‘good end’ scenario if he was still around Martin and Melanie and Georgie and Basira because none of them would think he was capable of change or recovery and give him no support and sabotage any support he is given outside of them because they don’t think he deserves it. Y’know. Like in canon.
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