they had to bring helen in to disrupt the argument because martin had no actual points he could use in rebuttal 🥀🥀 can this man just try maybe thinking critically for once
obviously i understand that like martin has to be an audience surrogate and therefore he has to ask questions but like omgggggg how is he THIS annoying about it ⁉️ like king pls how is john meant to change the answer just because you don’t like it were you expecting things to be nice and peachy in the apocalypse…..
buddy thinks that him observing awful things is a mark of morality (as he’s making himself suffer and equates suffering with redemption) while john observing awful things is a monsterous (as he needs it to live). notice how the outcome doesn’t change. notice how neither action causes or mitigates further harm
Can’t BELIEVE Martin didn’t support Jon in his transition. Supportive boyfriend where 😒😒😒😒
prev i mean this with love but like…. did we listen to the same podcast…? he was not supportive of that at all lmao 😭😭
been a while since i listened but he seemed pretty chill about the eye god thing to me
more than tim or basira at least
a collection of some of the evidence against that idea:
(p1)
i know in canon noone is supportive of jon being an avatar (except for elias) but i was joking based on how martin doesnt seem as bothered by it as the others, like tim. its probably just because of how in love with jon he is. respect your commitment though
he is bothered by it as i just showed you and i really also don’t think he is in love with john. no jokes allowed on the martinblackwoodhater blog sorry im the only one allowed to have fun here i am evil
How friendless does Jon have to be that he had to turn to Helen oh my GOD.
I don’t like “Helen”. I didn’t like her, even when she felt guilty, even when she helped out with Jared, EVEN when she helped Jon and Basira escape. I didn’t like her, I don’t like her, I won’t like her.
It was her episode that shook me up the most out of the whole dmn podcast. I don’t talk about the statements itself here much but the fact that she personally came to the institute clearly shaken up, told her statement and sounded so genuinely relieved for Jon to have believed her, and then only seconds later ended up back in that door? Forget that being the first time Jon admitting he believed someone, I cannot even imagine how horrifying it must have been to walk through the door and realize you have ended up back there again. The feeling of relief turning into dread must have been absolutely devastating and that THING did that to her and now it’s calling itself Helen and I don’t like her.
i think if i had a bf so desperate that he’d turn to Helen Distortion I’d kms. like how bad do you have to fuck up a relationship for that lmao 😭
saw a post saying that jmart isn't codependent because martin refused to gouge his eyes out for jon, and instead chose to do a more logical option. and it was very. oh haha jon is so stupid and irrational thank god he has martin to be sensible for him.
and like. had martin been willing to help jon leave when he asked to, even if he wasn't willing to also leave, the world wouldn't have ended. or at the very least it would have taken longer. gouging out their eyes would have been better.
literally like omg i don’t know why people mock john for exploring his options with blinding himself. like guys the world ends because he doesn’t do that…. it’s not illogical he isn’t being paranoid the world is literally out to get him
As a person of color, to me, Martin comes off as such a wannabe white savior character in both canon and ESPECIALLY fandom depiction that his whole character in general just gives me the ick whenever he shows up/mentioned. It’s especially apparent when it comes to j/mart.
It boggles my mind how the fandom hc’s Jon as a poc, usually SE Asian in most characterizations but only at an aesthetically surface level, when they get into his backstory they never or rarely bring up how his darker skin tone might have influenced his experiences with others, especially with how prevalent micro-aggression is in European countries. Then they turn around and depict Martin as the “reasonable” innocent but secretly badass one (I cringed writing this description of what they think of him) who only does what is "right", then there’s Jon who’s either this unreasonable brute that Martin needs to “civilized” or in this case, “humanized,” OR a completely dependent maiden in need of rescuing (from Mr. big bad Elias Bouchard, who will huff and puff and blow their ship away) fanon Jon falls under so many negative asian stereotypes that you would think they’re doing it on purpose.
Does this make sense or am I reading into it too much/projecting? Because I am SE Asian and Jon happens to be my favorite as well. 😭
omgggg that makes perfect sense and i think you’ve really put into words something that’s been bugging me for a while in this fandom. i think that the way it’s so clearly just like an aesthetic change and to make john like a complete visual contrast from martin really annoys me because like it just feels like such a weird way of using race as like a prop for the white character’s design without anything deeper. and also because people will go into the comments of any brown man w long hair on tiktok and be like “erm- jonathan sims ⁉️”
obviously not my place to try remove representation and that’s not what i wanna do at all, but it does confuse me when john is treated as if he’s actual se asian representation when like there’s nothing supported by the creators, the writer and actor are both white, and there’s no indicator of his race in canon at all 😭
but also like god bless anyone that projects their own race onto john (or any of the characters) and gives him a little more depth 🔥
As a person of color, to me, Martin comes off as such a wannabe white savior character in both canon and ESPECIALLY fandom depiction that his whole character in general just gives me the ick whenever he shows up/mentioned. It’s especially apparent when it comes to j/mart.
It boggles my mind how the fandom hc’s Jon as a poc, usually SE Asian in most characterizations but only at an aesthetically surface level, when they get into his backstory they never or rarely bring up how his darker skin tone might have influenced his experiences with others, especially with how prevalent micro-aggression is in European countries. Then they turn around and depict Martin as the “reasonable” innocent but secretly badass one (I cringed writing this description of what they think of him) who only does what is "right", then there’s Jon who’s either this unreasonable brute that Martin needs to “civilized” or in this case, “humanized,” OR a completely dependent maiden in need of rescuing (from Mr. big bad Elias Bouchard, who will huff and puff and blow their ship away) fanon Jon falls under so many negative asian stereotypes that you would think they’re doing it on purpose.
Does this make sense or am I reading into it too much/projecting? Because I am SE Asian and Jon happens to be my favorite as well. 😭
omgggg that makes perfect sense and i think you’ve really put into words something that’s been bugging me for a while in this fandom. i think that the way it’s so clearly just like an aesthetic change and to make john like a complete visual contrast from martin really annoys me because like it just feels like such a weird way of using race as like a prop for the white character’s design without anything deeper. and also because people will go into the comments of any brown man w long hair on tiktok and be like “erm- jonathan sims ⁉️”
obviously not my place to try remove representation and that’s not what i wanna do at all, but it does confuse me when john is treated as if he’s actual se asian representation when like there’s nothing supported by the creators, the writer and actor are both white, and there’s no indicator of his race in canon at all 😭
but also like god bless anyone that projects their own race onto john (or any of the characters) and gives him a little more depth 🔥
adding onto this i don’t always like the portrayal of humanity being granted more to those the fandom perceives as white (martin + melanie) and it kinda feels a little weird, with helen and john being the ones treated as evil or lesser and inhuman. obviously this isn’t a severe pattern, with like georgie and stuff and obviously there are avatars that are pretty firmly cast as white by the problem. but just with how there’s so little indicator of race in the podcast it feels kinda a bit odd to me with how set in stone it is, particularly with how both martin and john are almost similar levels of avatar-ness (because martin has like three sections of apocalypse all to himself or smth) and yet martin’s the one who’s cast as being completely human and the only one who can redeem johns own humanity, like u were saying in the ask 🥀
^^^OH I forgot to add this but people who hc’s Jon as brown and then characterizes him as greasy looking vs Martin who appears to have perfect hygienes or is barely mentioned as looking unkept, while they’re in the middle of an apocalypse together genuinely pisses me off
That other post I just sent almost broke my Tumblr (im on the website ver) gonna keep my asks shorter 😓 apologies for the text wall
omggggg i forgot to mention this too and it irritates me SO much. because like i swear there’s like no reason for that in canon, and john is a pretty put-together guy who’s clearly intended (at least at first) to be a bit of a like posh british gentleman stereotype who clearly values organisation at the very least. i can see somewhat why this might be due to his obvious (understandable) mental health spiral in s2 onwards, but it does unsettled me that it’s always JUST john while tim was actively suicidal and being stalked by his boss and martin is literally over there walking around the workplace in his pants and living in a cupboard. and they both look all perfect or whatever. like i dont believe there’s no subconscious bias there don’t pmo
Hi!! The anon that brought up the asian stereotypes the fandom depicts onto Jon here, thank you for your response and I’m so glad this topic is being discussed!!
I like that you brought up other characters treatments as examples with Melanie versus that of Helen’s because whether or not the fandom realizes it, like you said, they really do like to pick and choose who they view as “human” or morally sound (with a common pattern of them choosing the characters they like to depict with the lighter skin tone but WHATEVER :\ ig) Speaking of Martin’s character/powers breaking the established norm compared to other avatars, because for some reason he doesn’t struggle with his powers anymore after an arc while Jon does for the rest of his life is, hm, ok. Also it definitely reminds me of how colonization tend to pick and choose cultural aspects from locals they do like and incorporating them into their own culture, then demonizing the rest that doesn’t fit their world view. How Martin has the audacity to shame Jon for his powers and in the same breath uses Jon’s for his own benefit disgusts me.
It irks me the golden opportunity they created (unintentionally?) and wasting it up to just an aesthetic standpoint to pair with Martin, when they literally like to depict Jon as Indian, INDIAN, one of the most beautiful and culturally oldest, diverse people in the world. Hinduism, Jainism, and Buddhism all have common themes of omnipresent divine gazes correlating with wisdom and it’s never utilized in this fandom.
Another thing I wanted to go into further detail from my previous ask is the specific historic fetishization of asian men being feminized and looked down upon based on physicality and achievements which fanon Jon gets so much of this treatment already because they (and he) don’t align with western standards of masculinity. It gets more gritty and I’m not sure how tumblr will react so for a more modern but short real life example, Jon’s treatment from the fandom is similar to how asian boybands are treated by the western industry and adult men.
That’s enough of my thoughts of fanon for now.
As for canon, Jon our white manTM, I can’t deny that. My previous thought of Martin being similar to that of a typical white savior character isn’t just in regards with Jon but also stems my own reaction to him?? As I’ve met people just like him that it has instilled a fight or flight response to his character, so when he continuously treats Jon the way others have treated me and other people like me in the canon, I can’t help but project onto Jon even if he isn’t the same demographic.
TMA fans will see a green character with lots of eyes (literally a common symbol of Eldritch beings or just horror in general) and instantly mention TMA as if it created the concept.
tma fans will see a brown man with long hair and instantly mention tma as if it created the concept
