I’m assumimg you meant ‘opinion’, and I don’t have one. (Also, I think the other name is actually DoorKeay. Door + Key. Cute)
I like Gerry, he’s an interesting and likeable character. But Michael doesn’t even play any major parts in the story. He’s not even there.
He’s been dead since the beginning. We only heard him say one line. We only know that he was kind, and caring, and marked by the Supernatural. Poor, disposable Michael.
The ship between Gerry and Michael is cute and silly, especially since the designs fanon gave them are opposites. It’s aesthetically pleasing. But when it comes to their actual story and dynamic, there is none. You can make up basically anything and it technically could be canon. Very fun if you like writing characters, but I prefer analyzing what’s already there.
I can get behind DoorKeay tho. Gerry as someone raised among the Supernatural, and the Distortion wearing the face of his coworker. I feel like Gerry would have an easier time bonding with the Distortion rather than the og Michael. He would understand it, and it would HAAAATE him for it. Perhaps Gerry could force the Distortion to alter its nature?
But truth be told, I never really cared. I never cared much about any of the ships and that’s why the fandom’s focus on shipping is irritating, esp since they almost always omit the horror part of it all.
Real thought im the doorway anon again I'm gonna name myself doorway anon because of that misspelling
I don't give a shit about ships either but I like to read fanfics once in ages and Gerry and Michael are my favourite characters so I like it when it's focused on them especially Gerry I love Gerry I like it when something is focused mostly on him or halfly of him because I relate to him a lot
But tma would have been so much better without any canon ships though
STATEMENTS ON TOP STATEMENTS I WAT THE STATEMENTS
i was excited about jmart when I first got into it but a year later......get it away from me......
Also random but I hate timsasha and jackagnea or whatever MY AROAMANTIC QUEENS TRUST
agnes is Def aroace
Oh yeaaaah. Jmart being canon ruined the whole experience for sure. And I’m not saying it like “well since the podcast is horror focused, there shouldn’t be any romance, just scary!”. I just wish the romance included the horror aspect. More gothic perhaps? Instead we got “two coworkers walking through the apocalypse holding hands”.
Because of jmart the horror bit was pushed aside in season 5, which ironically takes place in the fearscape, so it should’ve been horror FOCUSED. Dumb as hell. Hate it forever.
Also most fanfics are either 1) Jmart centric or 2) terribly out of character. Or both. The only good tma fic I have ever read was an AU in which Jon was a fairy. And even then they had nothing left of the original characters.
I agree with aroace Agnes it’s such a cool concept. She was raised in almost complete isolation from “normality”, so I feel like her fascination with relationships in general came from the fact that it was all alien to her. She was only ever a Messiah. It’s not like she got the chance to hold hands with people before. It’s just like with the coffee she never drank - she wanted the experience, a fairytale version of something actually mundane. I mean, it’s the things you never got to try that you want the most.
Doorway anon that you figured out the identity of calling myself doorway anon is funny I'm keeping it
WHAT IS GOING ON WITH SOME ELIAS FANS ON AO3?????? I am scared why is he out in the fanfics graping people I'm tireddd
That guy is not a grapist please 💔💔💔
8 year old Jon??? Teenager Gerry??? Teen Gerry??? Teenager Michael????????? Og Elias???? NRO HE WOULD NOT GRAPE ANYONE STOP
Do you ever open ao3 at 3 am and regret your life choices
Oh my god. Soooo many fics do that and it’s HORRENDOUS. Also no need to censor the word “rape”.
It’s a legitimate problem, and it shows that a lot of people don’t even try to understand Elias as a character. They see him as the big evil villain that stands in the way of their favourite gay blorbos.
Because they don’t understand his actions and yet feel the need to paint him as evil, they make him commit disgusting acts of violence to justify their hatred for him (and often, when the fic involves non-con JonElias, they describe Jon as a helpless little boy and Martin as his big strong savior. Treating the podcast as their personal BL webtoon). None of those fics are interested in analyzing Jonah’s character at all.
I think it’s also Jared Hopworth who occasionally gets this treatment. The big bad man standing in the way of your favourite queer couple. Oh, and he’s homophobic too! Can’t forget that one!
This is such a Martin way of thinking. The whole black-and-white perspective. No wonder so many people kin him
i see your death of the author and raise you: death of the fandom, for when other fans and the content they produce are so unbearably bad that you divorce yourself entirely from the fanbase except for one or two Trusted Mutuals™️
i always saw martin as representing humanity including the horror of it as opposed to the horrors of avatars/monsters that much of the podcast goes on about. hes not the initial thing that traumatizes a person hes represents the callousness towards victims who are now "monsterous" due to their trauma. he offers comfort sure but he never can relate and frequently judges jon.
like that was very much my take after finishing the show with how it framed elias/avatars vs martin/humanity as things for jon to chose between. and i was surprised to see all the dickriding for martin when i looked at the fandom because hes not meant to be a remotely good person. you should NEVER hit your partner idc the circumstnce!
yknow that kinda hell yeah actually i get the vibe actually. i typically don’t like any exploration of his character (it’s always bad) or anything that could be close to sympathising with him but you can live i suppose. notice how martin haters always have the best takes? 😇😇
Y’know it fucks with me how much Jon being an orphan informs everything about him, considering it’s a throwaway aspect of his backstory that is never mentioned or talked about again.
Do you think that’s where his need to know started? Like. Even before Mr. Spider. Do you think that when he started to realize and recognize that he had a different home life than his peers that he started to ask his grandmother questions? Questions she would refuse to answer. Like. How high was his father when he fell? What routine surgery was it that ended his mother’s life? Questions only a child would ask because a child’s thought would be ‘what if I ended up that high up or needing that surgery?’ How could he prevent his own death unless he knew what to avoid? But because she wouldn’t answer, would tell him he was being tactless and rude, he would seek it elsewhere. Giving him a lifelong need to research and know on his own terms, because he was taught no one else would give it to him. Which also lead to being unable to GRIEVE HIS PARENTS. She never talked about it, from what I remember of his personal statement. She was too wrapped up in her own grief, her own pain, to care for his. And what else would lead Jon to his guilt but the fact he never learned GRIEF.
I’ve already said I’m going to the mental hospital willingly, you can stop pulling on me.
i’d love to hear your thoughts on this scene!!! i copied it direct from transcript. i already know how i feel on it, but i’d love to hear yours. the whole slapping thing martin did is icky and gross and im glad jon doesnt brush over it TOO much
MARTIN (cutting in)
“No, no, no; that's enough!”
[A JANGLING AS HE - REACHES OVER?]
MARTIN (CONT'D)
“That's enough.”
[PAUSE.]
[A FEW STEPS.]
[THEN, CLOTHING SOUNDS AS THE ARCHIVIST SPEAKS:]
ARCHIVIST
“Thank you for not hitting me this time.”
[A PAUSE THAT STRETCHES ON FOR THE SPAN OF THREE HEAVY BREATHS.]
Wow, Martin actually took Jon’s feelings into consideration for once? Unbelievable. Should’ve started by not hitting him that first time. It wasn’t that hard! He could’ve just done whatever he did here instead of a slap to the face.
I think “the Jon that’s an avatar” and “the Jon that’s his lover” are two separate beings in Martin’s mind, and so slapping “the monster” didn’t matter as long as he got “his” Jon back.
It’s great that their relationship isn’t “teenage couple” level of toxic, but I still don’t care. I liked the horrors, and so the sudden unexpected appearance of canon romance soured the experience for me.
Idk, but something about early s1 just kinda… eh? Early Jon and Martin interactions are okay at best, and I’m aware Elias wasn’t supposed to come in yet but he could have had a bit more plot. Idk season one is just unsatisfying
It’s a horror fiction podcast you silly! The statement is the main part, and the rest is more like a dessert.
I loved season 1 because it gently drew me in. It wasn’t demanding to listen to because it wasn’t plot-heavy, and you could enjoy each statement as a story on its own. That’s what I like most about the podcast - you can listen to any episode at any time without it feeling taken out of context.
Idk, but something about early s1 just kinda… eh? Early Jon and Martin interactions are okay at best, and I’m aware Elias wasn’t supposed to come in yet but he could have had a bit more plot. Idk season one is just unsatisfying
It’s a horror fiction podcast you silly! The statement is the main part, and the rest is more like a dessert.
I loved season 1 because it gently drew me in. It wasn’t demanding to listen to because it wasn’t plot-heavy, and you could enjoy each statement as a story on its own. That’s what I like most about the podcast - you can listen to any episode at any time without it feeling taken out of context.
Anon is giving “I want to make chocolate chip cookies but I’m allergic to chocolate”. If you didn’t find the first season interesting then I’m sorry but this particular piece of media might not be for you.
I get people having preferences and all, but I feel like there’s a limit - you NEED to listen to the statements in order to understand the story. It’s giving booktok girlies skipping everything that isn’t dialogue
People saying Elias was the sole cause of Jon’s suffering don’t get it. The whole tragedy of it all is that Jon would’ve gotten harmed by the powers whether he was the Archivist or not. The only difference is he wouldn’t have survived it.
Half the fanart depicting Martin makes him look like a prepubescent boy. Pleeease that man is in his thirties!! You don’t need to baby him just because you think he’s fat and cute!!
It seems really clear to me. Don’t make the switch. Everyone in this world does and you force the Fears to fucking eat each other. Kill them. Otherwise they’re going to kill billions more and oh by the way this is theonly way they can be killed.
If billions are going to die EITHER WAY and this is the only way that their killers can go down with them pull the trigger Piglet.
But no. Somehow these other universe people are “hypothetical”, whereas the billions of people you never will meet on this current Earth are somehow realer.
Stay in the dying world. Sink your teeth into it and when you die know you are tearing a bloody wound into your killer.
“I don’t agree that it’s clearcut that it’s worth the risk of sacrificing everyone on earth in the hope that this is the only place where the fears currently exist.”
–
I actually don’t care if the Fears exists elsewhere. I quite frankly assume they do exist in multiple different versions all across the infinite dimensions. The math doesn’t change.
Option 1: Die with the world. The Fears eat 8 billion people + the millions of others they ate in the past. The Fears have consumed (Reality 1′s past millions) + (Reality 1′s victims caught in the Fearpocalypse)
Option 2a: Set the Fears loose. The Reality 1 Fears eat millions in the alternate reality in the years it takes for someone to succeed in that reality by bringing them in and they eat however many billions are on Earth at that time. The next reality does not pass them on. The R1 Fears have now consumed (Reality 1′s past millions) + (Reality 1′s casualties in the Fearpocalypse) + (Reality 2′s past millions) + (Reality 2′s victims caught in the Fearpocalypse)
Option 2b: Set the Fears loose. The Reality 1 Fears eat millions in the alternate reality in the years it takes for someone to succeed in that reality by bringing them in and they eat however many billions are on Earth at that time. This reality passes the Fears on. The R1 Fears have now consumed (Reality 1′s past millions) + (Reality 1′s casualties in the Fearpocalypse) + (Reality 2′s past millions) + (Reality 2′s casualties in the Fearpocalypse) + (Reality 3′s past millions) + (Reality 3′s casualties in the Fearpocalypse) + do you see where I’m going with this?
If we assume there are other Fears it still doesn’t change the math. Either the Fears can only infect world that don’t have other Fears lurking about, in which case every single death is directly attributable to our Heroes, or the Fears can infect worlds that do have other Fears in them, in which case our Heroes have only added to the death toll of that world until the Fearpocalypse occurs.
No matter how you slice it, allowing the Fears to live only adds to the suffering.
Even if there is NEVER another Fearpocalypse in any other reality.
If another Fearpocalypse doesn’t happen, there is no way to kill or stop the Fears. They will keep picking off one-in-thirty year after year, millennia after millennia. Eventually the total will outweigh Reality 1′s death toll.
The whole world dying in only 1 reality is the LOWEST death toll possible. Therefore, it is the only ethical option.
Thinking about how Basira has to believe that passively allowing murder/horror is different and better than causing it yourself, because if they’re the same, then she’s responsible for all of Daisy’s crimes.
Sorry for the impromptu Martin hating, but his treatment of Jon in this episode is frankly and inarguably vile. He keeps treating Jon like he’s a spoiled child when he is (1) at the mercy of someone who very well could be their enemy and (2) for the first time in a long time deprived of powers that he depends on.
To do this scene with self-awareness they should have made Salesa say “Ha! Are you sure you two are dating?” after one of Martin’s remarks and have Martin respond with utter confusion.
It’s rare that a single post is an instablock from me, but this is just depressing. For Jon’s fatal flaw to be his curiosity would mean that, what, the story has a moral and it is that you should accept things as they are instead of interrogating the reality you live in? That is the podcast’s grand statement, “Don’t ask questions”? It’s not merely depressing, actually; it’s reactionary anti-intellectualism.
Also, “let love take precedence over knowledge and logic”? If you really want to get down to it and talk in terms of good and bad and life lessons, as the post implicitly does by mentioning fatal flaws and “changing for the better”, it’s important to remember that this isn’t just a story about two people in love (and I’ve let rivers of ink run on this blog about how badly written Jonmartin is as a loving relationship). There were entire realities as stake, so no, letting love for one individual take precedence over the knowledge of what will happen and the logical conclusions you draw from it is not positive character development; it’s selfish. I like selfish characters; I’m all for selfish, but not when they’re not acknowledged as such by the narrative or, in this case, by critics.
And as a closing remark, I will die on this hill: Jon did not change for the better. He’s mean at the start of the podcast because it is a front he is putting up. Georgie knew him before the Institute and after his presumed “positive character development” and never made a remark in the vein of “Hey, you’re nicer now.” And even if that were not the case, I think a slightly mean boss trying to be impressive is better than a traumatized man in a shitty relationship who dooms uncountable other realities because his partner is about to die.
Idea: Jon and Martin have eachother but they’re still lonely -> Martin’s Lonely aspect is showing -> Martin WANTS to be alone and he also wants Jon to stay with him -> Martin purposely isolates Jon from everyone else so that Jon has to stay with him, can only stay with him.
Martin’s Lonely aspect should’ve been highlited more in season 5 instead of just being a vessel/medium for his angst. He should’ve been shown as more monstrous pleeeease. His relationship with Jon should’ve been portrayed as more supernaturally unhealthy. Hurting people is not always physical, and you’re not always aware that you’re being hurt. The Lonely would’ve been so cool if it were also shown as a weapon, as something that can hurt you just as much as the Eye’s compulsion. Not just as a tool for Martin’s character development. The harmful isolation motif should’ve been maintained in season 5 as well instead of being discarded for the sake of the human-monster dynamic.
Every day I mourn monstrous Martin. They could’ve been so much better auuugh…. AND it could’ve made Martin drop the weird superiority thing he has over Jon in s5. That or he would become the ultimate hypocrite (tasty)
Idk if someone asked you this before but are you listening to The Magnus Protocol? If you are, what are you thinking of it so far? If not, is there a reason for it? (Btw thanks for answering my last question)
I’m so glad you asked that because I have soo much to say.
When TMAGP first came out it was kind of exciting. Everyone in the TMA fandom was hyping it up, so I decided to give it a go. But honestly, I didn’t find it all that amazing; I only made it to ep 28 before losing interest. There are a few things that discouraged me from listening to it further.
My first problem is with the form of it. Each episode is a compilation of different recordings - from a computer, from the cctv, from a phone. It’s original and interesting, but this also made it difficult for me to understand what was being said. I needed to look at the transcript during nearly every episode, because I couldn’t make out what the characters were saying. I’m not that good at processing audio, especially since english isn’t my first language, and the wide variety of form certainly didnt make it easier for ne.
This alone made it pretty annoying, since the main reason I listen to podcasts is to be able to occupy my hands and eyes with something else, like drawing. Having to read the transcript while listening is a bit demanding and requires my full attention, making the whole thing feel like a chore.
I also don’t like the frequent changes of the place and time of action - again, I had a hard time knowing what was going on without following the transcript as I listened.
My other issue is with the statements. In TMA they took the form of a written report, so they all followed the same pattern - they were all told from a first person pov, clearly divided into segments, told at a steady pace allowing tension to build up. TMAGP statements vary in their forms and shapes, once again making it both original and hard for me to follow.
That is not to say I didn’t enjoy them; I liked a lot of them, but there were also some that didnt speak to me at all - they were just not scary in the slightest. I did not have this problem with TMA - even if a statement didn’t resonate with me personally, it still made a great standalone story.
Another one of my issues is that there is so much going on. The episodes focus way more on the plot than in TMA in my opinion. I’m aware this might be because of the smaller number of episodes that TMAGP is going to have in comparison to TMA. But still, I couldn’t really bring myself to care about any of the characters, and, by extension, I don’t care about their stories either. The statements are, and always have been, my favourite part of the podcast(s).
I aslo have a problem with TMAGP being basically “TMA: the sequel”. There are a lot of references to the original podcast, and you need to know all of them in order to actually understand what’s going on, because a loooot of it is left unsaid. In TMA you didn’t have to do all this detective work - while you could technically spend every episode searching for clues, the narrative did a pretty good job of explaining it to a clueless listener (me). You can’t fully enjoy TMAGP without knowing everything about TMA first. Again, that’s demanding.
Another reason for why I’m not very into TMAGP is that I don’t care for JonMartin. Season 5 wrapped it all up nicely. I don’t caaare what they might be doing in other universes. They never mattered much to me. And most TMAGP fans I’ve seen focus mainly on the characters that appeared in TMA: “omg Gertrude and Gerry are happy! Basira is a techer! Jon and Martin did this and that!” I don’t care sorry. I’m here mainly for the horror short stories.
So yeah I’m not really into TMAGP. I tried listening to it, but only ever got so far as episode 28 before getting bored and dropping it.
@flamingphoenix916 I had SO MUCH to say about jmart that I had to do it in a separate post. This way I can also include screenshots from the unofficial transcripts.
First of all, Jon and Martin aren’t really compatible. They don’t even know eachother outside of the Archive. Martin’s stuck on his “precious image of Jon”, as Elias stated, and Jon is way too busy Seeing everything to focus on improving their relationship.
Martin frequently cuts Jon off when he’s talking about the Fears, because he’s uncomfortable hearing it. He outright refuses to be of any help in regards to Jon’s new feeding habits - understandable, logical even, but not even attempting to help doesn’t make him a very good partner. Martin will actively isolate himself from everything that upsets him, and so I wouldn’t say it’s a good thing for him to be with a guy who’s essentially the filter for all the world’s fear and suffering. Jon’s like the liver of the Fear-infested world.
He fails to empathize with Jon on several occasions. When Jon refuses to kill Simon Fairchild (or was it Oliver Banks?) he tries to give an explanation for it, but Martin once again cuts him off and expresses annoyance, because “well they’re monsters! They deserve to die!”
This is because Martin thinks in black and white. He always looks for the simplest explanation, and gets upset when such a thing isn’t available. His morals shift to accomodate that. “The Avatars hurt people for their Patrons, so they’re Bad and deserve to die. When I revenge myself upon those monsters, it’s Good and Correct.”
He also has trouble accepting Jon as an avatar. He’s disgusted, or at least inconvenienced by Jon’s new needs and behaviours, and separates Jon into two categories: the Human Jon whom he fell in love with, and the Monster Jon who’s compelled by the Powers to hurt people.
He laughs at Jon when he’s vulnerable while they’re at Salesa’s. He slaps Jon in MAG 172 becase he didn’t feel like waiting for the man to finish his second statement. Also, I’m not a fan of the “human-monster” divide between the two of them. Martin should’ve become a full-fledged avatar instead of just toeing the line.
Here are some things i said about them in my previous posts:
“ There is no real build-up to them getting together. It’s just… one moment they’re in the Lonely, desperate to find one another, and a moment later they’re saying "I love you” and kissing eachother. When did that happen? I get the whole “grasping at eachother for balance” thing, but was there really a need to make them a couple so soon?
The build-up felt more like it would lead to a friendship, not outright romance - which is why their relationship felt so surface-level in the following season. The writers put together two people that only knew eachother as coworkers, and tossed them into the apocalypse right after that. Jon and Martin do love eachother, but they don’t know eachother besides their surface-level bickering. This relationship could’ve been salvaged in any other circumstances except the goddamn apocalypse, where both of them are constantly on edge. They can’t really sit down and talk about their feelings, when the primary feeling they’re experiencing is fear.
What I’m saying is jmart feels… kinda undercooked? It could’ve had a nice dynamic if it got actually developed. They’re just two friendly delusional coworkers. “
” I mainly have a problem not with the ship itself as the canon presents it, but with the fanon characterization - veeery often they’re watered down to “big fluffy protective boyfiend” and “dangerous but soft monster”. It’s bland, it’s shallow, and worst of all it is completely out of character. And since jmart takes up a large part of canon (they had an entire season!) and is most people’s favourite part of the podcast (back then they used to binge it just to get to season 5), there’s a TON of content of them and nearly ALL of it is blatant mischaracterization. But there’s nothing to be done about that. “
Honestly, if not for the widespread fanon version, maybe I could even be a fan of this ship! But the canon doesnt really give us much, and the fanon is absolutely attrocious.
also actually like litterally why is fanon martin a fucking uwu mashmallow baby when we never see him be nice to anyone really 😭 'martins so kind and loving' when??? to who??? by making tea??? babe thats the basic british hosting instinct hes still a rude cunt
literally oh my godddd like yeah ok he makes tea for people ?? ok? i make tea for my mum too doesn’t mean i like her it’s just the polite thing to do 😨
like literally you’re so right we get TOLD martin’s a sweetheart cutiepie or whatever but like ?? Is he ever actually nice? … like at all?
People will hear a character with a high voice and a stutter and immediately jump to the conclusion that they must be a cute softie, or worse, transmasc.
I’ve never seen it being discussed but mag199 is one of the most important episodes in the show and is crucial for understanding Jon’s character and his choices.
Characters here need to make a choice and everyone gives their take on situation. Except for Jon. The first people to talk are everyone present in the room and Jon is the LAST person who says something here.
And when he says that they actually have more options, his words immediately get dismissed by Melanie and Martin. Through the whole conversation the only words Jon gets to say are some unnecessary corrections and weak protests. But he never gets to say his piece fully.
Again, the person who’s the only one able to change world back, is the last one who gets a word to say.
From Jon’s POV, here he is, again, viewed only as a tool. Here he is, again, not the one to actually decide what to do with the world. He is, again, forced to do something he doesn’t want and his own will does not matter.
And this is crucial for his actions in mag200. He never wanted the option everyone else agreed on, and still he is expected to follow the path that was carved out for him. He never chose to be marked by the Web, he never chose to end the world. And he didn’t want to let the fears free. This choice was made for him.
But still, for the first time HE is the one holding all the cards now and finally, FINALLY be the only one to decide how to play them.
And he does just that.
i think the tags from @cosmic-crunch should be immortalized
Your blog has become my favourite since i discovered it so i might start asking too many questions.
Is there a character that you despise almost as much as Martin? Whether because you dislike how the fandom depicts them, or because of their personality, or for no reason at all.
There’s never too many questions. I love answering them ♡
I actually don’t have such a strong opinion on any of the other characters, at least not regarding their canon versions. Truth be told, I never cared much about those people. The statements are my favourite part, although if I had to choose a fave then it would be Jon, simply because of his voice. I love it when he reads the statements.
In regards of the characters, there are a lot of moments that make me feel an all-consuming rage. But they were all done for a reason and in character, so I have nothing to complain about. In order to do that properly, I would have to do an in-depth analysis, and my opinions aren’t strong enough to do that yet.
I do have a problem with a few fanon depictions tho.
One: It’s the fans that made me really dislike Martin. It’s actually kind of interesting in its own way, since the dogshit awful fanon version was so bad that it motivated me to analyze his character, and form my own opinion. In many ways, TMA fandom sucks absolute booty. I can only consume TMA-related content from a few hand-picked blogs or else I will die painfully.
(Also there is a large part of transmasc Martin headcanons that are sooo icky….. A lot of people who do that see him as weak and feminine and so so sweet and that’s just plain weird?? Seeing him as a little fat cutie and also slapping the trans headcanon on him. Feels like you just wanna baby trans men)
Two: I read once that depicting Daisy as a butch is enforcing a quite harmful stereotype of butches being inherently violent. Especially since we’re told that she chose the nickname ‘Daisy’ to appear softer, sweeter.
Three: Fans of Michael Shelley (NOT The Distortion) that swear he’s their favourite character are… odd. I mean, like who you like, it’s alright! But Michael wasn’t even there. His only purpose in the story was to be thrown away - “poor, disposable Michael”. The only things we know about him were told to us by The Distortion - that he had a friend who got consumed by the Spiral, that he wanted to avenge them, and so that’s why he joined the Institute. I get liking him, but placing him as your favourite character?
Most of his fans that I’ve seen only use him as a vessel for shipping. They can slap basically anything on him and it will stick, because he’s nothing more than an empty shell. You can’t even analyze him, because there’s nothing to analyze.
Four: A lot of the widely accepted fanon designs are plain unrealistic. And I don’t mean unrealistic as fantasy, I mean that their appearance doesn’t fit with the setting of the story at all. Those are all adults in their early thirties if I’m correct, working in a semi-professional, academic environment. They wouldn’t wear frilly skirts, or maximalist outfits with a hundred accessories, or several pride pins.
I get that it’s fun to dress up your fave like a doll, but please. Slapping fifty headcanons on a boring office worker makes you lose the essence of the character in the process, and they just become an oc in the end. Not to mention that too many headcanons erase the character’s personality entirely. A character’s personality and certain habits are reflected in the way they would dress.
Another thing regarding the designs is that people get soooo pressed when someone’s design of the character doesn’t match the widely accepted fanon. I know, I just spent over a paragraph criticizing designs as well, but in reality it’s not that serious. I don’t care nearly as much as you may think I do. But when someone makes Jon white, or, worse, Martin skinny - people are gonna go “uhhmmm…. that’s not MY blorbo….. what did you do to him……” and it’s so weird! This is a podcast character! We only got a few vague lines about their physical description! You can draw them however you like and it might as well have been canon! You never know!
I love talking. @neurodiev1rgin never stop sending me asks. They actually help me get my thoughts and opinions in order
It was in the way your grandmother hesitated when calling your name, as though primed for a different one, and the fact you weren’t him wore at her as surely as you did simply by existing.
From a young age you knew you were cursed.
It was in the way that, by the will of some cosmic force, you weren’t allowed to keep your parents. Not even the memories, as you were just too young to have any that last aside from their ends.
From a young age you knew you were hated.
It was in the way that someone ten years your senior never once relented in causing you harm over the years you knew him, your grandmother never once intervening despite its regularity.
From a young age you knew the world was unjust.
It was in the way it should have been you, not the one who hurt you, to die. It should have been you and the fact you lived was a crime you could never repay but with your future as collateral.
From a young age you knew you weren’t meant for this world and you feel like everyone else knows it too.
It’s in the way they talk about you behind your back and in front of your face. No matter how civil you try to be. No matter how gregarious and magnanimous. You know you deserve nothing and so do they.
So you stop. Stop trying to be wanted or loved. Stop trying to care for anyone but yourself. It never got you anywhere anyway. Instead you turn to knowing and learning. Maybe you can understand why what happened to the poor unfortunate who took your place happened. Maybe you can understand why the world is unjust. Maybe knowing will give you a place in the world, no matter how small or awful.
Your name is Jonathan Sims and there was never any hope for you to not become what you did. It was already written for you before you even started.
It’s not even that I’m a Martin Blackwood hater, but it’s just that when there’s someone who’s told you multiple times and shown you very clearly they don’t like you and don’t want to be your friend, and who’s also visibly very afraid of spiders, don’t try to convince them that “actually spiders are great and pretty and environment’s best friend :))”.
Like what the hell, man. Boundaries. If someone I hated and had told multiple times that I didn’t want to interact with them beyond anything professional tried to convince me my phobia was irrational and actually the Thing I Hate is pretty and harmless I’d send them to their death without a second thought. Completely get Jon on that one.
ALT
Actually @levaagrace that’s quite a good point. Martin is a bitch. And he’d probably do that on purpose.
This post was specifically about Jon’s point of view and how unsurprising the amount of hate he gives to Martin in season 1 is. But you’re making a very good point, and it’s showing how much the popular fanon depiction of Martin is different from the actual, canon version of him, especially in the early seasons (although tbh he’s mischaracterised heavily in all seasons).
I’m constantly seeing season 1 Martin depicted as a lovesick idiot who crushes heavily on Jon and just thinks of giving him tea and doing good work to impress him and get him to like him. But that’s because Jon is a bitch too, and he’s unreliable as fuck when it comes to narration. Jon thinks of Martin as this version (maybe minus the crush part, that came later because of Jmart shipping), while in reality he’s just subtly bitchy so Jon can’t pick up on it.
Luckily it has been said before, but this doesn’t stop me from saying it again.
Not for the lack of trying. He is technically not a monsterfucker, but only because the monster is very firmly asexual.
Given the chance Martin Blackwood would verymuch like to be one.
No he wouldn’t. Cmon.
Martin does not like Jon as an avatar. He doesn’t tolerate Jon’s new needs. He doesn’t want to listen to the statements. He views avatars as monsters that deserve to be killed, conveniently not counting Jon among them in the moment he says that, only to berate the man later on when he started to enjoy the revenge-killing.
He only loves his precious, human version of Jon. The man’s asexuality doesn’t play a role here
What do you think was Jonny's reason to make Jon and Martin end up together? I, for the longest time, just accepted that it was just fanservice. We've known about Martin's crush since season three, and Jmart was popular, so he rewarded people that were hoping for it to be canon, but I don't really like that hypothesis; it kind of feels too much like a "the curtains are just blue" way of thinking.
I tried putting something together; maybe Jmart was meant to be a parallel of Daisy and Basira, with Basira loving (platonically or not) Daisy when she's at her most monstrous, and Martin hating Jon for it, but idk if it really makes sense because Martin likes the idea of killing people as long as HE sees fit.
I'm not MatPat, i'm really bad at theorising so i would like to see your perspective on this.
For me, it still feels like the first reason is true: the fans liked the characters, and so the writers just smooshed them together. I mentioned previously that Jon and Martin’s jump to romance feels rushed to me. The build-up they got felt like it would lead to a friendship at most.
The paralell to Daisy and Basira is interesting. Basira liked Daisy at her most monstrous. Martin liked Jon at his most human.
Except Basira admits that later on. The nature of her relationship with Daisy is outlined and highlited, and more visible to the viewer. The narrative never does that with Jon and Martin: it’s just made to be that whole “you are my reason” thing.
The canon provided us with an interesting dynamic and then did nothing to explore it, or at least explain it, resulting in a lot of fans seeing them as cutesy and lovey-dovey.
It also explains Martin’s reasoning in the last episodes on s5. He didn’t want for Jon to become a monster, not out of sympathy, but because he doesn’t like Jon monstrous and tied to the Eye. He is repulsed by Avatar-Jon. This also adds to the nuance of their relationship, considering that being an avatar is, at that time, a very large part of Jon’s very being. He can’t get rid of it without ripping out parts of himself. The version of Jon that Martin loves doesn’t exist anymore. Maybe it never existed at all.
MARTIN
[Petulantly] Of course it is. Of course it is! Because how could this journey possibly end with anything less than the final, supreme destiny of the Archivist, plugged into the great fear machine for all eternity and, and abandoning humanity.
Breaking his promise. (MAG 194)
MARTIN
Because she said if I did, she’d leave without me. And then… well… we’d have had to stick with crappy Plan A, and you’d… you’d end up gone. (MAG 198)
GEORGIE
Spread the fears to other realities.
Option two is John takes over from Magnus. Keeps the Powers contained here with us, and tries his best to make the place a little more… tolerable, until the end.
MARTIN
And we lose him. (MAG 199)
I still think the romance was unnecessary. All of this could’ve been done without these two kissing, and maybe that would’ve made the fans stop obsessing over the ship just beause it’s canon and actually focus on the horror part every once in a while.
currently listening to s5 (last episode I listened to was 169) and...? wtf...???? why is martin highkey an asshole I'm sorry but your boyfriend is battling with a tragic loss/guilt/mourning for a world that he killed and you're all trapped in its rotting corpse/GUILT and you're just??? telling him to fucking MAN UP??? wtf is wrong with you oml
also notice how when Helen says "such devotion; you really don't deserve it. But of course, you already know that! :)" line, martin offers NO COMFORT AT ALL/WHATSOEVER. NO "it's rotten work/not to me, not if it's you" JUST. SILENCE. WTF
and THEN instead of helping his bf out with the fact that he's slowly losing his sense of humanity and literally just KILLED someone and is ASHAMED of it he encourages him? despite probably knowing that that's unhealthy and can/will have a detrimental effect on his wellbeing? and then he has the fucking audacity to constantly sound like he's the victim here - I don't even know how he does it, he's just CONTANTLY FUCK WHINING about whatever bullshit minor inconvenience he encounters.
I'm so fucking sick of this this is not okay. That + the fact he's never actually been nice? past maybe, what s1? if ever? like sure he was a cute character at first, endearing, but he's just a fucking asshole if I'm completely honest.
anyway do with this what you will. Not a big fan of martin and the turn his character has taken s4-5. also the fetishisation of said turn - "murder knife man who will hurt those who wronged his bf 💕" NO bbg he's just being a complete fucking BASTARD who isn't there to support his bf and is instead indulging in his own little victim complex. there is nothing sexy about being a bad boyfriend and inciting your partner to murder (even if it will probably ruin them) + also being jealous while you're at it like girl. girl no
omg literally like there is a line between ‘speaking up for yourself’ and just genuinely being like outright a bad person and martin has like fully spat on that line and torn it out of the ground. like people are so willing to overlook genuinely toxic and abusive behaviours from martin just so they can force it into their little “cute apocalypse gays 😜🥰” traits and project their own 'self hatred’ and 'mommy issues’ onto him.
and obviously there’s nothing wrong with portraying unhealthy gay relationships in fiction, in fact it’s good to have that scope of representation obviously if it’s done well, but the problem is that any problems in their relationship are just largely overlooked by the writing and pretty much completely overlooked by the fandom.
martins so very aggressive and pushy etc to his mourning boyfriend, but when the time comes where he could actually put that drive at all to defending or comforting the man he loves in any capacity whatsoever, he just doesn’t, and it’s such a weird choice to make for him??
like this is what’s supposed to be his boyfriend and the only person he really has left in the world being told that he doesn’t actually deserve love or whatever, and only feeding into Jon’s own internal conflict ((mostly over loss of his own humanity which also i NEED to talk about how martin is awful and absolutely fuels that for him but that’s a tangent for another day)) and just why WOULDN’T he say anything against that.
like that’s not even the thing that a good partner/friend would need to step in on or at least comfort him on after, that’s just the sort of thing that any decent acquaintance or person whatsoever should at least say SOMETHING to, and to have just nothing in response from martin is absolutely a weird decision.
Do you have any other podcasts that you enjoy and recommend? And if you do, do you plan to talk about them? Whether on this blog or another one? You mentioned a few times you listen to TMA for the statements, so I assumed you liked Welcome to Night Vale as well.
I actually haven’t listened to that many podcasts overall. The Magnus Archives is the only podcast I managed to finish so far.
I tried listening to Welcome to Night Vale a year ago I think. I liked it a lot! Can’t remember why I stopped. Lack of proper time probably. I prefer listening to podcasts a few episodes at a time, since I tend to forget things when I take breaks, and end up having to relisten to the whole ep anyway.
There are some podcasts that I want to check out - like Hello From The Hallowoods, The Penumbra Podcast, Camp Here and There etc. I don’t plan on listening to them anytime soon tho
Idk you or another person already talked about this, but one of the biggest reason as to why i can't understand HOW people think Jmart are a perfect couple is this
Mag 172
He literally slapped him just because he didn't want to wait? Why did everyone just forget about this? I don't remember if Jon by S5 still feels pain, but even if he didn’t, there is no reason to do that; he could just shake him or call him instead; Martin wasn't in a desperate situation where he needed Jon to wake up fast, he just did it.
Mag 173
He thanks Martin for not hitting him? Wtf. He did only slap Jon for no reason this one time, but i'm pretty sure hitting your lover more than zero times is not normal
Their relationship definitely isn’t all sunshine and rainbows like the fandom likes to paint it. And it pisses me off!! “You were starting another and I didn’t want to wait” to where are you rushing in the place where time doesn’t function anymore? You’re gonna be surrounded by horror in a few minutes anyway.
It could’ve been good if presented correctly, but all jonmartin content/fanart I see says something like “the slowest slow burn ever aww” “the Antichrist with his boyfriend!” “They’re looking at cows!” “Martin fell first Jon fell harder” and ugh. It could’ve been bearable. Fine, even. But it’s all that there is. There is NO terrible broken incompatible jmart (beyond the “ouuugh you made me stab youu, how could you do that??” thing AND EVEN THAT makes Jon seem like he’s the only one at fault).
Because of this a lot of people decide to get into TMA with the fluffy fanon version of jmart already in their minds, and when they get to season 5, they aren’t prepared to look past the “apocalyptic gays” version which they’ve internalized. Some of them even go so far as to skip the statements in favor of dialogue, because they’re boring.
Everyone collectively missed all the nuance in favor of a bland gay pairing that doesn’t even work like that in canon. Please engage with the source material beyond looking at what you want to see. There’s media with queer representation that doesn’t involve horror! You don’t have to specifically get into a horror fiction podcast just to ignore the horror part and listen to gay men talk!
i have a… complicated relationship with martin blackwood.
don’t get me wrong, i don’t count myself a true hater, like some people out here. I think he’s a complex character and has a lot of great traits to him. i even… to an extent, i see a lot of myself in him. or more correctly, i see a lot of him in myself and kin him greatly.
but also like he isn’t. a good person. at all. like everyone used to think about him. the mischaractarization of martin and idealization of him is like. holy shit its a huge ass problem. don’t treat my man like that please and thank you.
that being said, he also is not the best option for jon as most people think. i would argue even that hes one of the worst options for him, and thats one of the reasons i hate s5 of tma so much, since. they somehow magically make it fucking work even if it is shown in multiple instances that it, in fact, does not. jmart shouldn’t have been endgame (it should have been jonelias but i digress)
a lot of stories treat romance like it makes the relationship between two characters self explanatory and to be honest it doesn’t
story: they’re in love :)
me: why?
story: what do you mean? they’re in love :)
me: what do they bring to each other’s lives? what do they admire about one another? what draws them to each other?
story: love :) :)
me: ok… so what is that going to look like now?
story: like love :) :) :)
me: are their personalities going to clash at all? are they going to have arguments? learn to compromise for each other? will they need to adapt to sharing their life with another person? is it going to be smooth perfect harmony from day one? are they going to be always together? see each other sometimes as their occupations allow? how does this relationship affect their lifes.
There are many reasons as to why jmart is a mediocre ship at best. One of them is that for the entirety of season 5 Jon and Martin were written to be a couple. Not two people, pushed together by their awful circumstances, but as one entity. It made me feel like a lot of their depth as individuals was pushed aside, in order to label them as romantic partners.
Every single thing they did was seemingly motivated by “their love for eachother”, or at least that is the popularized fanon version worming its way into the source material. The Archivist and the Archivist’s Plus One. “Who’s that? Your boyfriend?” “Yes, actually.” This is the main thing the narrative gives us. Everything circles around the fact that they are boyfriends. They are robbed of their individuality. Even the brief moments they got on their own only served as angst material for their relationship.
If you want depth, you need to be looking at every single minor detail and dig it out, or, even better, just imagine it yourself! (The safehouse period that everyone loves sooo much).And even then, even if you manage to find something, it gets crushed and warped and shoved aside by the fandom. The source material is just not as popular as the collectively imagined version.
Weird as hell that mister "i guess im good at telling people what they want to hear" blackwood decides to be bluntly honest in moments during which pointing out the truth is straight up needless and cruel. Yeah man its a great idea to tell jon hes a monster while hes metaphorically wrestling with his avatarhood! What a discovery! Im sure that helped his self esteem a lot! You are soooo supportive!
Anyway, Jon would never be able to recover from his trauma in a ‘good end’ scenario if he was still around Martin and Melanie and Georgie and Basira because none of them would think he was capable of change or recovery and give him no support and sabotage any support he is given outside of them because they don’t think he deserves it. Y’know. Like in canon.
"Ooh Martin's so smart and cunning" and yet he thinks like a ten year old! He found out the world is infested with supernatural phenomena and instead of trying to understand how it works he went "oh, they're evil and murderous. Got it" and didn't think about it for a second longer.
And because of that he treats his boyfriend like shit and thinks its the morally correct thing to do. He's an avatar now, so he's evil, obviously. I know it's not your fault, Jon, but could you keep it down? Could you stop making statements? They upset me, i don't want to hear them. Yeah, i know that you need to, but just keep it to yourself. Don't try to get me involved in any Fear-related business, i don't want anything to do with it. What do you mean you enjoyed the killing that i forced you to do? That's not okay. You're a monster. You will always be a monster. And I will never let you forget that.
But noo haha they are so in love you guuuys!!! Cute apocalyptic gays!! Martin is soooo a monsterfucker, he wants Jon so bad!!! He obviously thinks obliterating people with your mind is sexy!! He's not repulsed by Jon at all!!
ARGHHH monsterfucker!martin truthers are the WORST!!! they’re the bane of my life (alongside martin kinnies) because also like they always think they’re morally superior somehow for this opinion?? they’re always like “heh… at least in not one of those uwu baby martin kinnies ☝️😎” and it’s like… ok but like not only are you more annoying but you’re also EQUALLY mischaracterising ‼️‼️
How? Do you want me to torture Martin in increasingly cartoonish ways? Throw rotten tomatoes at his fans? What are my options here. Help me out boss you’re the experienced one
By constantly reminding Jon that he's a monster, Martin is actually causing him to get worse. And it's so odd??
Since he loved Jon when he was human, you'd think that he would do everything in his power to try and help the man to return to his old self. But he purposely makes Jon worse by belittling him.
He uses Jon to feel better about himself - Jon's an avatar almost fully consumed by the Power, and he's an avatar only halfway. By reminding Jon how far he's gone he also simultaneously highlights that he's the more human one out of the two of them.
Even when he makes use of Jon's abilities, it's purely for his own gain. The killing spree? His idea. The people he wanted Jon to kill were people he had a personal grudge against. But he suddenly does a 180 and acts like it was Jon's thing when they're in Jude Perry's domain, because he doesn't have anything personal against her, and so suddenly it's Jon who has to decide.
Martin's selfish. And selfishness is not a foundation for a healthy relationship. It isn't even a foundation for an interesting relationship! He acts like a toxic parent!
truth truth truth like king im sorry you had a somewhat shit mother but like oh my godddd so did everyone else and they weren’t SO insufferable 🙄🙄
also him acting like his mother and that being the reason his relationship is awful i begrudgingly admit could make him more defendable but the problem is that just literally is not written into the podcast like at all? like whatsoever?? and it just feels like such an odd choice because saying it out loud like yeah that’s so obvious
i dont like tma finale, i feel like it was forced just to have a bittersweet jmart moment, and im sort of neutral to negative on jmart as is especially as presented in canon and i think thats one of the biggest reasons i dont care for it. still, i think it feels insanely forced and inorganic just in the way the two options are set up, but i really really do like the concept of it, dont get me wrong, but the way it came up feels wrong, i feel like they should have cemented the dilemma earlier in the season. i really want to love it, and i like the conclusion it left and the opening for the magnus protocol and where it took that, but its just so lackluster as it sits.
Coming from the doorway anon here I haven't checked Tumblr in a while absolutely in love with this blog/p
Also as a Michael Shelley lover I think the only reason he's up there is because he is an empty shell
We don't get that much of him and they either like him because since he is in an empty shell we don't get to see almost none of his flaws other than being naive and people like projecting it gives them stuff to work with not in an "stuff to analyse Michael Shelley" kind of way but just to make stuff up and whatever they slap onto him cannot be mischacterisation because there is not much of him to be mischaracterised
Also I never realised why I desliked Martin in a way until I found this blog
"SO THAT'S WHY I FEEL LIKE THAT ABOUT HIM"
Also Michael being naive and disposable.....the fandom is full of traumatized people
I wish Jon was aromantic too oh my god
I couldn't realise WHY I hated Martin so much because whenever I opened tumblr everyone made him seem like such a sweetheart
Writing this at school with not much sleep and dehydrated ignore any spelling mistakes
Please never ever stop posting
Also I think the fandom is starting to make me slightly annoyed at Michael Shelley because he's so babied too? Maybe
also confused on where muslim basira came from I am relistening and wondering if I zoned out on an episode (I probably did)
I MISS SO MANY STUFF OH MY GODD
About Michael - yeah, that is basically what makes him fun! While technically you are free to do as you please in regards of the designs, with him you can also do whatever you want with his personality. He’s a bit like a free space in the story, and you can squeeze whoever you’d like in there.
I’m glad i helped give words to your feelings regarding Martin. That’s why diversity in fandom is needed, not everyone will enjoy a piece of media in the same way. You need different perspectives in order to put together your own. Not to mention that it always feels nice to find someone who shares your opinion.
The babying is a big problem in this fandom. Notice how its always male characters getting this treatment? They’re always helpless cute babies. And the women aren’t even hated, they’re just never talked about.
And muslim Basira? I think it’s just the fandom hearing a vaguely eastern name and deciding to run with a stereotype. A hijab is a garment tied to religious faith, and there is nothing said about Basira’s beliefs or relationship with religion in the show.
I can’t get over the fact that TMA gave us the concept of the Extinction just to throw it away before it got a chance of having any impact on the story.
It could’ve been so good. Especially in season 5. You mean to tell me that the Fear of an apocalyptic world wasn’t utilized in an apocalyptic world setting?
Odd. All we got was Martin with his whole self-sacrifice and self-hatred gig. It was okay. But sort of underwhelming, compared to what could’ve been.
(Actually so annoying that a whole Fear is irreversibly tied to a character that didn’t even serve it.)
I feel like jonmartin fans want them to be Frodo and Sam SO bad but they never will be! They're like frodo and sam if they didn't have years of friendship and a deep bond and sam didn't actually give a fuck about frodo and pushed him into the volcano himself in the end
never read the hobbit but i think ill love you forever for this nonetheless. get so freaky on my blog
Waitt this is so real. They want jmart to have a meaningful, deep, life-changing bond so BAAAAAD.
Newsflash pal! They don’t know eachother at all! It’s like trying to romance a stranger on the bus. It just won’t work.
A good romance needs a good foundation, whether it be mutual affection or resentment. Those two are hollow. Knock on their relationship and you’ll hear an echo
![SALESA
Ha! I do like this one! Now you mention it, you actually remind me of Jurgen a bit. In his younger days of course. You’re sure you won’t have a drink? We definitely had some tea around here somewhere?
MARTIN
Er, I, I already had some, thank you. Some of us know how to be polite guests.
ARCHIVIST
[Sharply] I don’t intend to accept anything offered by Annabelle Cane.](../media/4653af7b675bd82e6c8fab794be708fa566a6ebd.jpg)
![SALESA
Fine, I’ll tell you how it happened. But you must sit quietly while I tell you.
MARTIN
Don’t worry, I have had lots of practice.
SALESA
And you?
[SOUND OF A DISGRUNTLED ARCHIVIST]
MARTIN
He’ll behave.](../media/a1cf06ce6f8cc3748b5bf37e79d95e6819a69a3c.jpg)
![ARCHIVIST
[Compellingly] Tell me what happened.
SALESA
No.
ARCHIVIST
I – uh… W-What?
[DEEP CHUCKLES FROM SALESA]
SALESA
The look on your face! Look, he’s so confused!
[MARTIN LAUGHS A BIT TOO]
ARCHIVIST
Martin!
MARTIN
Sorry. Sorry. Y-You did look kind of funny. It was l-l-l-like you were flunking an exam or something.](../media/758049d90eb98b42d65b8c634b18cd93aa42f49b.jpg)
![[ID] Tags reading "#tbh I feel like it was on purpose to make Jon uncomfortable #Martin is an ass who threw death worms at him in his first on podcast appearance #he wasn't trying to help Jon's phobia #but maybe I'm just being uncharitable" [End ID]](../media/5be4dbeab49b6cba7fbea15dbc28e38495d5f937.jpg)
