Making art about Martin dying just feels like a step too far... like are you getting off on it or something? We need to regulate the freaks on this app I fear.
You can tell the people insulting you like martin bc they talk like him... calling you names in a roundabout way so that you cant really call them out because they never SAID it..... who cares if something is implied?? Who cares if the subtext is screaming in your face? My pookie martin is innocent cause the narrative never stated he was an ass!
love pissing off martin kinnies because they like to fetishize their own self esteem issues so much that it just feels like “heh… guess i deserve it :)” except they’re often too mad to say that so i appreciate the mental gymnastics they have to do #ragebaiting #iamevil
also im sure you’re right here but ive got no idea what post youre like vaguing about. still sounds like something that would happen tho
Anyway, for ppl who’ve listen to tma: Did the fandoms general reaction to Jon and Martin’s relationship in s5 being “omg cute boyfriends!!” “omg love conquers all, I bet they’re kissing in a new universe together forever!!” When the relationship is textbook emotional and domestic abuse that borders on being actual torture, ick anyone out as much as it did me??
I literally was so uncomfortable and grossed out by how many people just…view s5 as cute and not a severely mentally ill man being isolated, abused by the one person he thought he could trust, and then having his only autonomy being taken away from him. Like. Did. Did we listen to the same podcast? Why….why is this cute? Martin called Jon a monster for “"enjoying”“ the torture he was going through, while also throwing fits when Jon didn’t use his monster powers to kill people whenever he wanted. Like. Like thats not cute? Thats abuse? That’s really upsetting abuse?
I was originally fine with it, cuz it’s a horror podcast, but after the finale and Jonny’s Q&A stuff I was like oh noooooo,,,,, this was supposed to be cute, Jonny what the fuck man. Luckily he’s an firm believer in death of the author so Jonny is dead and jondaisy is actually canon fuck you.
I feel like I would’ve stayed in the tma fandom longer but I fucking despise jmart so goddamn bad that I basically hated 90% of fic/fanart. Also someone yelled at me on anon for trying to say this before lmao
You can tell the people insulting you like martin bc they talk like him... calling you names in a roundabout way so that you cant really call them out because they never SAID it..... who cares if something is implied?? Who cares if the subtext is screaming in your face? My pookie martin is innocent cause the narrative never stated he was an ass!
love pissing off martin kinnies because they like to fetishize their own self esteem issues so much that it just feels like “heh… guess i deserve it :)” except they’re often too mad to say that so i appreciate the mental gymnastics they have to do #ragebaiting #iamevil
also im sure you’re right here but ive got no idea what post youre like vaguing about. still sounds like something that would happen tho
omg fr actually. pretty proud of the fact that all my haters reveal themselves to be absolute fucking losers in ways that i wasn’t even originally aware of. the martin kinnies curse.
Your post about repeating old fandom jokes is a moronic take at best. You have the exact same fandom mentality as every preteen on the internet. “This fandom joke is old”, “this joke has been said a million times before”, what are you, the fucking fun police??? Do you hate fandom lore, too?????? Sure, you can hate it all you want but you know what else you can do? Be Quiet. There’s nooooo need to be so up everyone’s ass about harmless fun, and if you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all.
You could’ve just told me to kill myself and it would’ve saved us both some time to be honest
Just to clarify I do not give a damn if you decide to post the Jurgen Leitner rant or some other dumb repetitive take for a millionth time in a row. I just got pissed that one time. I keep posting Martin hate even tho I already made my points a hundred posts ago and as long as there’s Martin glazers I will persist. The grind never stops
martin the kinda guy to go “erm… im literally neurodivergent and a minor?? ☝️” anytime he doesn’t get his way despite being neither neurodivergent nor a minor
i think the two martins should’ve fucked and then destroyed eachother and maybe it would’ve righted the universe or at least i wouldn’t have to hear them any more
No actually what’s with the “TMA has so many Michaels” joke like this isn’t even true. There’s Michael Distortion and Michael Crew and the latter doesn’t even go by Michael he goes by Mike. Mikaele Salesa isn’t really a Michael. And all the other Michaels were like two irrelevant statement givers that played no role whatsoever and that’s it. Like that’s not that many Michaels to remember at all
mr hater here new account i lost my phone if you sent me any like ask or whatever in the last like day then pls resend it here or I’ll never see it 💔 the day tumblr lets you log in my username rather than email i’ll be a much happier man
agreed on the tagging thing but on an ao3 front. I hate jmart with all my heart, and the why doesn't really MATTER, but I should be able to filter out the jmart tag and be just fine. but that isn't the case. i filter out jmart? jmart fics anyways they're just untagged. i filter out MARTIN (because i also kind of dislike HIM) and nope theres still jmart. what the fuck. tag your shit, please. the please is a tenuous thing i won't ask for long
do we think martin and jon have ever like actually had a conversation about ANY of the stuff that’s happened to them because like man i think not. they literally found out half the stuff they know about eachother through snooping on old tape recorders imagine that being the basis of your relationship….
I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again these bitches do not know eachother outside of work. And that on top of all their shared issues makes them dreadfully boring unfortunately
Just fyi the more you tell me hating Martin is stupid and pointless and makes me an awful person the more aggressively I will despise him. If you want me to kill myself then say it to my face you coward you don’t have to pretend I’m some evil villain you have to defeat at all costs
do we think martin and jon have ever like actually had a conversation about ANY of the stuff that’s happened to them because like man i think not. they literally found out half the stuff they know about eachother through snooping on old tape recorders imagine that being the basis of your relationship….
I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again these bitches do not know eachother outside of work. And that on top of all their shared issues makes them dreadfully boring unfortunately
xoxo sorry i kinda stole this post from our convo in dms. not my fault you have good takes ‼️
It’s ok my liege. Good thing you remembered that since our dms are now unfortunately unavailable to you
rahrah yes people jump through SO many hoops to justify their hating as the most morally justified and it’s like dude im hating because im evil and im a hater what about it
If you seriously unironically think Martin is a monsterfucker then you must’ve listened to the podcast with your ears plugged or something. His disdain for the inhumane couldn’t have been expressed any clearer than it already is
If you seriously unironically think Martin is a monsterfucker then you must’ve listened to the podcast with your ears plugged or something. His disdain for the inhumane couldn’t have been expressed any clearer than it already is
Let’s say, hypothetically, that Martin really did love Jon. How interesting that would be then, to have a man look at his beloved, notice all the traits he passionately despises and considers them morally wrong, and keep loving him anyway. Seeing past the morally dubious parts of him and straight into the person Jon truly is, under all the traits that were forced onto him against his own will. This could’ve been really beautiful and heartwarming if they actually had any meaningful conversations in canon aside from either arguing or bantering. Whatever my point is you don’t have to add random traits to Martin to make their relationship unique or enticing. You don’t have to ignore canon you don’t have to fit jmart into the “monster x monsterfucker” box I’m begging you stop doing that and use what’s already there please
In the later seasons, everyone deciding not to help Jon and instead cutting him off was theoretically reasonable. After all, they didn’t owe him anything. He caused himself to become like this, nobody turned him into an avatar. Cutting him off was a good and healthy choice for them. Yet I can’t help but notice that it was also cruel, in a way.
Yes, it wasn’t their fault that Jon became an avatar, but it wasn’t his fault either. He was in a coma. He didn’t want to die. It was the most likely choice not only for him - everyone else would’ve chosen the same, had they been in his position. His fate was arranged by others ever since he picked up that book at eight years old. It wasn’t his fault.
He emerged from the coma forever changed. It turned him weak, gave him new needs that had to be met. I understand that for the archive crew, Jon extracting the statements from innocent bystanders was disgusting and cruel. But he needed that to live. He lost his humanity piece by piece, and his entire self shifted into something strange. And everyone hated that new, broken Jon. But it wasn’t his fault.
The sudden change of Jon’s mind and body followed by everyone’s hatred and resulting in his isolation reminds me of someone suddenly becoming very ill or disabled.
Jon’s avatarhood was like a sickness. It was gradually destroying him from inside out. And no one wanted to help him. They saw the death of a normal man and the birth of this new, twisted version, and deemed him lesser than them, not worthy of their time. The damage helping him would cause them outweighted the benefits of that help. They deemed him something disposable. “It should’ve been you. You should’ve died and not Tim.” Jon was forced to suffer for something entirely out of his control.
Not even his boyfriend tried to help him, beyond trying to get rid of the symptoms that inconvenienced him personally. It’s not like Jon was a healthy, normal man, traversing through the apocalypse with just the occasional desire to describe his awful surroundings. He was assaulted by the fear from the very moment the apocalypse began. It gradually built up, until it was too much for him to bear and he had to unceremoniously vomit the horrors he felt. He was holding back his needs, denying himself any relief just because it was inconveniencing for the people around him. Martin didn’t even try to offer him an alternative, he just said the statements upset him and he didn’t want to hear them. Jon was forced to neglect his needs just so his boyfriend didn’t have to be uncomfortable. Martin could’ve at least shown some compassion.
It’s like doctors trying to manage the bothersome and abnormal symptoms instead of getting to the root of the problem and helping the patient function as they are. You should strive to be normal, because it’s the standard. You should do everything in your power to fit in. Anything not meeting the norm is deemed as less worthy and undesirable.
It also fits with how the last few episodes played out. Jon’s a monstrous avatar, so he is no longer given the right to decide for himself. He didn’t have a say in the discussion that regarded his own life. Like a disabled person. “You either submit to us entirely and we give you the help you need, or you keep your autonomy and we deny you help, because if you’re so self-sufficient, that means you don’t need it anymore”. He could either keep quiet and let others decide his fate, or he could disregard them and make the choice for himself, risking the loss of the only people who still tolerated him. And guess which path he chose.
Oh? People actually think Jonathan Sims started out cruel and uncaring and mean and it was only through violence and loss that he grew to care? Are we talking about the same guy? The one who has been suffering from immense survivor’s guilt since he was 8 years old? It’s because of all that empathy that he acts like he does. He’s all tangled up in fear and a desperate need to be taken seriously, and he leans into the skeptic so so hard in a misguided attempt to protect himself, but I think he does it to protect others as well. He feels like he’s being watched all the time, especially when he reads the statements, and if he admits they’re real out loud, it could put these people in even more danger. And he’s not entirely wrong, denial is one of the main ways people escape the entities. If you’re too deep in denial to be afraid, the Fears lose interest. But yes, he lashes out, he can be cruel, but it’s all in a misguided attempt to protect himself and others. He isn’t cruel by nature, just look at his relationship with Georgie, they wouldn’t have been friends if he had. Maybe he could be worse if the circumstances were different, but I don’t believe he can ever truly lose that empathy. It’s the entire reason the Web chose him. Why would it have bothered to choose someone who didn’t want to try to save the world? He doesn’t know how to handle anything, but he tries, he tries so hard, and that’s the point.
I ♡ when people reblog a post from me and include the rant I wrote in the tags. Like woah you actually took time to read through this half-hidden incomprehensible monologue just like I hoped for? AND you liked it?Incredible. Love And Adoration For A Thousand Years
Seeing people draw art of Gerry in full goth makeup is hilarious to me. You’re telling me that man can’t be bothered to re-do his shitty dye job but you think he has time to do a flawless white base, crisp eyeliner and lipstick every day? Incredible
ok i will be honest and keep in mind i often do hold the haters spirit as pretentious as i am but i do not care for jonmartin myself as it presents in canon, which is to say i do not think it is compelling. i dont think they ever built up the structure *in the story itself* for their relationship, and instead relied too heavily on the preconceptions of the fan base at the time. like, by banking off the fact that people already shipped them, they failed to add substance themselves within the story to support the idea that these two characters would be romantically involved. because, ultimately, by the time the relationship is suddenly established — it’s just like. oh okay. well. you didn’t build up to this essentially at all and these characters, independently and within the pure context of the story, have no real chemistry. like ok we got martin crushing on jon. but it was never really reciprocated. and then suddenly, they’re boyfriends…! like ok. well i simply do not care. you didn’t make me care. you relied on the idea that i already cared. which is not a strong writing choice toooo be honest like as the writer it is your job to convince me to care by adding elements to your story that preclude and support a given development. which makes season 5 so so so so uninteresting imo. boyfriends with no chemistry trot through the fear-wasteland. and then the individual plots of the episodes aren’t even as interesting as the prior seasons. sigh.
this is also what bothers me with fan portrayals of jonmartin, have it be in fanfiction, fanart, or analysis…. like the way they are characterized and discussed by fans is often so radically divorced from their in-podcast interactions and characterization that it’s nearly incomprehensible as the same thing. they’re not all cutesy and loving. martin strikes jon in-show and is wholly intolerant of his avatarhood, a major aspect of his self, because he sees it as fully contradictory to jon’s humanity. YET he regularly uses jon as an attack dog, or at the least goads him towards the role — taking advantage of his status as an avatar. like, if you enjoy jonmartin, why ignore this? these are interesting scraps of development that the two have, and some of the only development the two have. low keyyyyyy. and these pieces were NOT even acknowledged to their full extent in-show, which is another reason i find the canon of them uninteresting. it was as if there was no confidence in the writing room for these elements to be explored, despite their existence and explicitness. they had no consequence, or were exempt from consequence.
i also don’t like how wishy-washy the team was when commenting on jon and martins relationship and jon’s sexuality in their talk episode. like girl we can telllll you weren’t committed to it even without you saying it’s ’up to interpretation’ or whatever. just a bit cowardly imo. either have a romance between the two, or don’t. you can also really tell here (in s5) that they didn’t like the characters they were playing. which sucks!
but ultimately, the canon of jonmartin is one thing (underdeveloped) and the fanon is another (detached, disappointing in its own right). and it sucks because it could have been good if handled appropriately and with better characterization and dynamics, and better…. writing? relevancy? jon and martin being boyfriends could be excluded from the plot and not only would there be no major overall impact, it would be better overall as far as cohesiveness of character and plot direction goes. sighs. like, even if they wanted to keep the romance element in their horror podcast, something which they originally didn’t even want to have iirc, they could have set up ANYONE ELSE. grabs you. why jon and martin? and don’t answer with fanon interpretation. realistically the more logical and thematically interesting choice would have been jon & jonah/elias but i digress. rips my eyes outttttt
anyway to dispel anyone who might just box this as overt no-nuance haterism, i think it should be said that i am so deeply critical of tma because i loveeeeeee it its my favorite podcast. i love to rip apart my shows. im like a dachshund with their favorite toy. i believe in all of the things i said though do not get it twisted. i am a hater. i loathe my show. but i love my show. ok? duality and nuance? ok. 🌈☮️🌻
why didn’t everyone make tim fat rather than martin he’s so clearly the obvious choice. martin would hide and disintegrate into air at the slightest opportunity there is no substance on him. tim however……
No, he foes a magical girl transformation that doesn’t effect his luscious locks
Gerry is a busy woman she doesn’t have time for messing around with magical girl transformations. She would probably sleep with her makeup on to save time on doing it in the morning (if she were to do it at all that is)
im discovering a worse fate than “nobody else makes content for this fandom so you have to do it yourself” and its “theres a shitton of content for this fandom but its ALL ON TWITTER”
I got one even worse “there’s a lot of content for this fandom but it’s so divorced from canon that you can’t bring yourself to enjoy it no matter how hard you try”
when a ship is really good but its popular so everyone fucking does it wrong. they would not be cute and healthy and cuddly with each other. they are together in a way that harms them both and it sucks
every time a fandom dumbs down a very interesting nurodivergent character to “stupid dumb dumb child infant who’s smol and innocent and needs protection bc he’s just a baby” an angel fucking dies btw
Non-hateful Martin rant on the Martin hate account??? I bet yall didn’t see this one coming. Under the cut for length
Martin, like literally every other TMA character, is morally grey. He thinks of himself as a “good guy”, sure, but that’s exactly why he isn’t all that “good”- it means he will support everyone who agrees with him, and look down on people who, according to his perception of ‘good’ and 'evil’, are on the “bad” side. This way of viewing things, that categorizing everything into “right” and “wrong” and putting himself on the “right” side no matter what, is in certain situations both a strength and a flaw of Martin’s.
He has his moments: he’s shown to be very helpful and caring, his uncomplicated way of viewing everything means he will fiercely protect his friends no matter what, just like he did when Jon was accused of murder and when he defended Jon’s odd behaviour to Tim; but this simplistic way of thinking means he can be unintentionally cruel and harmful to those around him even when he has their best interest in mind: in season 5 him being very vocal and harsh in his hatred for avatars caused him to be also (subconsciously? Or purposefully?) cruel to Jon, whom he claimed he dearly loved.
But the vast majority of his fans don’t allow him to be actually, consequentially fucked up. Most fan posts talking about him repeat a variation of “Martin is my fucked up pookie!” Why do you think that? “Cause he wants avatars to die haha! He’s so sneaky, everyone thought he was a softie but he craves violence! He’s such a cunning manipulator! Go my bloodthirsty king, he deserves a gun!”
First of all, that’s not really what happenned, but I’m not here to quote canon to you. Second of all, this isn’t at all what I had in mind when making this post. You see, all the things I mentioned in the previous paragraph are perfectly “excusable”. It’s fiction, so the severity of the character’s actions do not matter, and on top of that the emotional aspect of fantasy murder and violence is foreign to the audience. You’re not gonna be personally affected if your blorbo kills off a bunch of no-name characters in the story they’re in. You know the act is theoretically “bad” and whatever, but it’s not real, it’s a reocurring event in this particular podcast, and the story itself treats it lightly, so why should you care?
My issue is that Martin has a lot of everyday-ish, human flaws that hit way closer to home, but are almost never acknowledged by his fanbase. I don’t care that he wants to kill, that’s really nothing new considering how all the other characters are. I care about his personality and canon characterization. I care about the ways in which his behaviour impacted other characters in the story, and I care about the fact that these effect were not always positive. Martin fans are eager to accept that he was okay with murder, but they never acknowledge him being passive-aggressive, or toxic, or selfish, or close-minded. Those characteristics aren’t all he is, and they obviously aren’t his defining traits, but they are a significant part of him as a whole. If you choose to ignore them, then all you’re left with is a stereotypical “soft cute cinammon roll” with Martin’s name and foggy aesthetics slapped on it. No connection to canon whatsoever. He’s essentially become an empty shell.
His problem is that he chooses to ignore things that make him uncomfortable because he’s scared of the responsibility that comes with acknowledging them. He feels like he should stand up for himself but he hates himself at the same time, so it results in him pushing away everyone he cares for and then blaming himself while not changing his behaviour, because he finds comfort in loneliness, because it’s what he’s familiar with. Because it’s always been like this for him, and he doesn’t have the strength to actually change something for once. It’s easier for him to maintain surface level relationships with people and not let them get close enough to form an opinion on him other than “he’s a nice guy who tries his best I guess”.
He himself said that offering tea as a blanket solution for people’s problems is easier than actually getting to the root of the issue. If he just makes that person some tea, technically it does nothing good but they can’t blame him for not helping. The whole let-me-bring-you-some-tea thing was Martin avoiding serious conversations while maintaining his image as a kind and helpful guy.
He can sympathize but not empathize, he relates to things that he personally experienced before but can’t really put himself in another person’s shoes. He can be very hardworking and responsible, but he can also be childish and avoidant, especially when it would mean he has to take responsibility for something. He has a very strong sense of justice, but his morals are based on a very childish perception of the world around him - “cops are supposed to be good, avatars are supposed to be bad” - he separates the world into “good” and “bad” categories without accepting the possibility of exceptions to that rule - you’re either with him or against him, you’re either good or bad; he doesn’t allow the possibility that it depends.
All of those biases and his childishness and his internal conflicts and his season 5 assholery make him equally interesting and unbearably annoying and that’s highkey awesome. Even if I don’t like the season 5 development and think it’s shallow I can still acknowledge that it has potential. But you people focus only on his depression and self esteem issues and pity him like he’s a little child. Baby that man can live on his own just fine lmao. Everyone in this podcast is depressed you just find his experience deserving more pity than all the others cause you relate to him as an introvert with a shitty parent. Let him be inexcusably messed up let him be awful let him be flawed in other ways than “poor depressed bean filled with self-hate aww”. Jon isn’t the only one who’s fucked up. Martin didn’t match his freak but he nearly surpassed him in personal problems and I’m sick and tired of people portraying him as Jon’s selfless pure-hearted savior. Where’s my canonical toxic codependence?????
Elias Bouchard is not a twink because the word twink describes an effeminate queer man in late teens/early twenties who is slim, boyish and has a youthful appearance. And let’s be real, none of this describes Elias. He isn’t even effeminate! His style is canonically old fashioned, Rosie having described his old fashioned hairstyle looking out of place on his youthful face. People think of him as twink because straight people started using it when they mean faggot.
i pull up to the tma party and slowly make my way up towards the stage. everyone turns their heads curiously towards me but i am determined. they look at me, faces slowly distorting into disgust, as i whisper “jonelias is better than jmart” into the microphone. i leave covered in tomatoes.
it is actually crazy that the same people who post nonstop about jon’s collection of ace pride merch and how making jon have sex in fan works is acephobic also churn out elias “gay and homophobic” “stupid twink” “dumb gay slut” “gay people i do not tolerate” “gay people i would love to hatecrime” memes
i don’t get horror movies, why doesn’t the protagonist just act in a way which will prevent a story from being told or piece of entertaining media made
Jonah Magnus thrives on knowing more than others and using that knowledge to his advantage, he is almost always two steps ahead and even when he isn’t he can still turn that to his advantage. This is something that defines him both as a character and as a person. Which is why so many jokes making fun of him have him not know things, causing him to feel embarrassed or uncomfortable. Those jokes rarely if ever make sense because there are so little things Jonah doesn’t know about and to get him to not know something is a complicated, convoluted process. Which is fine, but I am a miserable boring asshole who prefers character hate to be canon compliant or at least make sense
Another common thing is the idea of the Eye not telling Jonah things “for funsies”. The Eye isn’t sentient enough to have a sense of humour and judging by the way it doesn’t let Jon Know things about Jonah in s4, has no interest in making Jonah’s life harder. Jonah is also just better than Jon at Knowing things intentionally because he has been doing it for so much longer