every time I remember that Helen straight up said Jon isn't good enough for martin and will never deserve him only for martin to not say anything in his defense or to even comfort him I get so mad. like who treats their partner like that
It is so. Fucking. Crazy to me. That throughout season 5 Martin treated Jon less like a romantic partner and more like a child he's forced to babysit against his will. But then right at the very end he makes Jon go along with the Web's plan because he "loves him" and "couldn't possibly bear to lose him". And the entire fandom treats it like the most romantic thing ever
I'm at MAG 22 in my relisten, and it got me thinking a bit about the fandom's certainty that Jon absolutely despised Martin's guts.
I'm pretty sure Jon's dislike of Martin was only ever prompted by the man's utter incompetence and didn't extend much further, considering how he offered Martin a room in the archives without any hesitation whatsoever. Jon's far more caring than most people give him credit for
I'm at MAG 22 in my relisten, and it got me thinking a bit about the fandom's certainty that Jon absolutely despised Martin's guts.
I'm pretty sure Jon's dislike of Martin was only ever prompted by the man's utter incompetence and didn't extend much further, considering how he offered Martin a room in the archives without any hesitation whatsoever. Jon's far more caring than most people give him credit for
I mean. If he really was that much of a cold and unempathetic asshole as people like to paint him, then he wouldn't have offered Martin anything. He could've just said something along the lines of "well I'm sure that was very upsetting" and "I guess I need to thank you for bringing me proof of your encounter, I'll look into it more and let you know what I find". He could've carefully researched Martin's statement and then sent him back to his flat, since the Prentiss threat was likely gone. He didn't have to offer Martin a place to stay. But he did! And it was kind and thoughtful of him!
I'm at MAG 22 in my relisten, and it got me thinking a bit about the fandom's certainty that Jon absolutely despised Martin's guts.
I'm pretty sure Jon's dislike of Martin was only ever prompted by the man's utter incompetence and didn't extend much further, considering how he offered Martin a room in the archives without any hesitation whatsoever. Jon's far more caring than most people give him credit for
I mean. If he really was that much of a cold and unempathetic asshole as people like to paint him, then he wouldn't have offered Martin anything. He could've just said something along the lines of "well I'm sure that was very upsetting" and "I guess I need to thank you for bringing me proof of your encounter, I'll look into it more and let you know what I find". He could've carefully researched Martin's statement and then sent him back to his flat, since the Prentiss threat was likely gone. He didn't have to offer Martin a place to stay. But he did! And it was kind and thoughtful of him!
Yeah, I also keep thinking about how Jon (as far as he knew) was already putting himself at risk, because
He's terrified. And he gives Martin his safe, protected vault while he himself takes great risks to get to his place while Jane Prentiss was threatening him and, to his knowledge, on the hunt for him. To his knowledge, he might be her next target. It is absolutely not safe for him to be out in the open like that. But he still does it, because he tries to keep Martin safe.
An unsympathetic asshole might have just told Martin that he'd look into it and then locked himself in his vaulted document storage, fearing for his life. Jon did the opposite.
Not only Jon is kind and thoughtful far more than people give him credit for, but he's also willing to sacrifice his life for Martin - a man he thinks of as incompetent and actively making Jon's life harder.
Fans who say Jonathan Sims is a cold and unsympathetic asshole lack media comprehension. Jon has always been rather kind and caring in his actions and putting himself at risk for other people.
Wish my dash would stop showing me this jagged stick-and-poke eye tattoo someone posted in a tma community. Every time I'm forced to see it I feel slightly sick
Actually hilarious that Jonny Sims wanted to make a russian guy urban legend and he named him fucking Sergiej Ushanka. Its like naming someone John Tophat
Every time I see someone draw Jonathan Sims as an aesthetic Pinterest person in a long skirt I have a little laugh because it's set in an office in England, realistically this man is played by David Mitchell and actually does spell his name "John"
I'm sort of continuing my TMA relisten (skipped the Prentiss attack because I didn't feel like listening to it at the moment) and I've got something to say about the MAG 42 supplemental and Jon's paranoia.
Fans consistently joke that Jon being suspicious of Martin's behaviour was stupid and entirely irrational and "stupid paranoid idiot, Martin's being attentive to your needs because he has a crush on you!" But you have to take into account Martin's very impressive (and entirely fake) resume, as well as him turning out to be quite resourceful during the Prentiss attack despite being previously bad at his job, not to mention the ominous unfinished letter he left behind that said he's worried about the others "finding out that he's been lying" - if I were Jon then I would sure as HELL be suspicious of him too. Also you need to remember the very likely possibility that Jon never really had many people care for him before (on the account of him being orphaned from an early age and his grandmother disliking him etc etc so. What might be obvious and logical to YOU doesn't necessarily have to be that obvious to HIM.)
It's strange that so many fans dismiss the thought of Martin putting up a front and pretending to be incompetent as completely impossible when he straight up admits to having done just that in S5. Yeah he didn't kill Gertrude, and he was bad at his job cause he lied on his resume, but that doesn't mean he's the world's most honest man cmon
Sometimes I mourn for the version of season 5 I thought I was going to hear. I loved the whole plotline of Jon trying to save Martin from the lonely. Because Jon felt responsible for him, and Martin was the only one of Jon's assistants left. and I was convinced I was going to see Jon realising that he actually didn't like Martin.
Because like. throughout the podcast Jon is continually choosing to try to get power and information in order to protect the people around him. He's willing to sacrifice his friendships, his safety, his humanity, because he cares, even for people who have tried to kill him. He tries to kill Not Sasha, someone he remembers being friends with, in order to protect the others. And then Martin gets offered the chance to kill Jonah Magnus and free all the employees and he turns it down because he's a person! and he wants to have friends!
and they're just so incompatible and I thought we'd get to see Jon wondering if it was worth it to save Martin, and all this delicious stuff. and the creators said they wouldn't make the relationship canon!
and then we got season 5 instead.
any thoughts?
Yeah. You covered basically everything I've been criticizing. Literally every single tma critical post I've made circles around these topics. (Under the cut bc I just learned how to make those)
Keep reading
Then comes time for the big reveal, and it really was big. We found out what happened to Jonah Magnus and the real reason why the Institute was built. Martin also got to show that he's not as weak and helpless as everyone thought.
Season 4 felt like a build-up to something huge. We got nearly all of the cast hating Jon for something completely out of his control. We got Martin trying to pull off a self-sacrifice. We got introduced to the Extinction, told that it was a terrible danger to everyone and that it had to be stopped. A lot of things were happening at once, and there was a looot of tension between the characters.
Jon's desperate attempt to pull Martin out of the Lonely was little more than that. By that point, Martin was literally the only person that didn't outright despise Jon for becoming an Avatar, and that might be simply because he and Martin didn't even talk once. Another reason for Jon's lack of hesitation might be that he realized the crush Martin used to have on him, and so saving the man might've given him the hope of finding someone who'd treat him like a person, not a monster. All in all, it had less to do with romantic feelings, and more with desperation and the difficult situation Jon had found himself in.
There is no real build-up to them getting together. It's just... one moment they're in the Lonely, desperate to find one another, and a moment later they're saying "I love you" and kissing eachother. When did that happen? And don't say "well it was during the time they spent in the safehouse together!" Then why are they so painfully incompatible throughout season 5? Seriously, I get the whole "grasping at eachother for balance" thing, but was there really a need to make them a couple so soon? The build-up felt more like it would lead to a friendship, not outright romance - which is why their relationship felt so surface-level in the following season.
I completely missed the transition to the Safehouse on my first listen, and honestly I'm still not sure how it all happened. Jon and Martin's conversations there seem light and at ease, but they have no real basis for a meaningful bond.
And yeah, there's the issue with their contributions to their relationship being unequal. Jon is bending over backwards trying to accommodate Martin, leaving when he feels the need to make a statement, trying to explain everything as best as he can while carrying the weight of the world's suffering on his shoulders. He's not perfect, but it's more than enough considering the situation they're in.
But Martin? He's selfish in his behaviour, even if it's not outright visible. He refuses to listen to Jon talking about the fearscape because it makes him uncomfortable. He doesn't try to look at the situation from Jon's point of view - admittedly, that would've been very difficult, but he could've at least tried to show some support. He's repulsed by Jon's new needs, and, when they're at Salesa's, he laughs at Jon when he's stripped of the Eye's power. All of those behaviours are understandable of course, but it makes their relationship that ordinary kind of unhealthy; even tho they have their moments, ultimately they're just two people staying together despite not getting on very well. It was spelled out for them by Peter Lukas:
(I've lost count of how many times I used this screenshot)
Peter was trying to upset Jon here of course. But that doesn't change the fact it's true. They just don't have a basis for a meaningful relationship, because they barely even spoke. And yet they're the focus of an entire season.
Yeah, yeah, it's because of their circumstances, sure. But nearly every single fan looks at their relationship through rose-colored glasses. Better yet, I've seen people describe TMA as a "gay horror podcast" just because of jmart. And it's infuriating, because their relationship gives us nothing. These two men talked for the first time in what? Months? And the writers decided "yeah we'll make them boyfriends! This will be a hit with the gay fans for sure!" and then they wrote the blandest possible relationship they could've. It's like your parents who constantly bicker yet don't want to get a divorce. Just two coworkers in an apocalyptic world, and suddenly it's "gay horror".
Also they're so obviously unhealthy, and yet the narrative just... ignores it. There aren't any real consequences to their lack of compability, which is weird!! Really? No consequences? In MY inevitable consequences of your actions podcast?
Let's talk abot Martin, because of course it all comes back to him. My main issue with the man is that he thinks in black and white. When the Avatars kill people it's for their Patrons and out of their twisted desire, and so they're bad and evil. When he kills people(through Jon), then it's taking revenge on those monsters that hurt him, so it's right, and it's good. When Martin first witnessed Jon's new "powers", it's him who came up with the idea of using it for revenge. And as long as it's his initiative and Jon is only doing it for him, then it's good and morally correct. But when he noticed Jon started to enjoy the killing, then suddenly it's "wrong" and "not okay", because "you weren't supposed to enjoy it this much!" (Please be for real.) His perception of "right" and "wrong" is whatever is most convenient for him at that moment.
My other issue with Martin is that the Lonely barely even affected him. It was more like "heavy depression but make it Supernatural". Season 4 started sculpting him into an interesting character, someone who's ready to sacrifice himself yet cannot stand the thought of his friends getting hurt in the process. His whole Lonely arc gave him depth. He was focused. He had a plan. He made a decision and was ready to pull through with it.
But then he gets thrown into the Forsaken by Peter, and by the time Jon pulls him out, he's exactly where he started. The same insufferable brand of nervousness and indecision and lack of understanding. Turned back into the nerd emoji. Like... the whole "Martin being an avatar of the Lonely" thing could serve as an explanation to the shallow nature of their relationship - it could be the Lonely pulling them further apart! Or Martin realizing he lost feelings for Jon and quietly distancing himself from the man! Delicious inescapable tragedy!
So yeah. There's not a word said about their shitty bond, and it's the main focus of the last season. Boring boring boring!!! The wonderful opportunity to make them both monstrous was MISSED!!! Of cooourse Martin is unaffected by the Lonely, it's because he's with Jon! Martin helps Jon regain his humanity! The Eye approves of their relationship!! Also the whole "you are my reason" part was, like, the easiest way to make Jon not suicidal, for which he had all the reasons imaginable. Thatman hated himself for being a monster, and everyone else hated him too!! Butnoo he's with Martin now! The power of love cured him of depression! But not Martin tho, he deserves to wallow in his suffering, even though Jon had it just as bad if not worse. They had to divide them into "the one who's a monster and losing himself" and "the one responsible for keeping the monster at a leash". I apologize for the odd wording, i don't know how else to phrase it.
Perfect opportunity to make fucked up monstrous tragic gays, and we got toxic teenage couple instead. The whole apocalyptic setting was TERRIFYINGLY UNDERUTILIZED!!!!! Also the s5 plot felt like they were just. Dragging the whole thing. The finale was cool, moral dilemma and all, but everything before that? Unremarkable. Questionable, even. I only liked the statements. (But tbh I mainly only like the statements.)
my dislike of jmart is entirely a me problem and it's deeply rooted in me not understanding how can you love someone you don't really. click with? how can you love someone without liking them as who they are, now in this moment, not the person they used to be (that you didn't even know!!!). I know there are couple irl who have nothing in common with and they can be happy but I personally just don't understand that. and the basic example is that they don't even find each other funny. Basira thinks Jon is funny. and martin doesn't
and also I don't like it when the narrative wants you to believe one of characters is morally superior and it doesn't matter whether it's true or not. moral superiority brings condescension and there is little I hate more than that
With the whole theme of a strange infection turning you into something inhuman, I'm surprised I haven't yet seen fanart of Jane Prentiss in the No I'm Not A Human style
A Break Down of Jonathan Sims and A Conversation on Toxic Masculinity
Alright so it definitely seems like people agree that I should talk about this, so here goes
I'm going to break this down in a few different sections, forgive me if I get a little rambly in some areas.
1. Why the hell are you talking about this:
I have been noticing an increase, or maybe it's just certain aspects of the fandom at least, in people who are misunderstanding Jon, his strengths, his weaknesses, aaaand in general, the jokes I think that go a bit too far. And I hear you, it's fiction, why should I care so much about what people say about a fictional character? Ah well, people can continue to do whatever they want, it's never my place to say "don't do this or you're a bad person!" bc I also hate that lol, but I do think it's important to bring attention to certain areas and why what you may think is a harmless joke can actually not land the way you hope.
2. Jonathan Sims is not "Weak"
From the beginning of his time as a boss who stays up late and has a hard time taking care of himself, to his spiraling supplemental era, to getting kidnapped, in a coma, yearning era, and all of season 5.. There is not a single time I consider Jon weak. I get it, the wet cat jokes are funny (I've made them). However-
I think it's incredibly important that we remember something. Jon may have spiraled, had several breakdowns, gone through trauma, experienced a very large amount of pain, but absolutely none of these things made him weak or pathetic. Emotions, breakdowns, mental spirals, pained sounds, none of these things make someone weak. Jon goes through hell and back on multiple occasions. Immediately after confronting the very fact that the supernatural is real, he does not get a single break. He has no idea who murdered Gertrude, meanwhile he's the one being accused, the Eye is making him feel watched, he gets thrown into the Vast temporarily and after coming back he gets kidnapped and nearly gets decapitated in the woods (watches Mike Crew get shot). I don't think I need to explain why getting kidnapped and moisturized by a bunch of mannequins for a month without your consent could be extremely traumatizing, knowing they want to skin you. I need not go through the rest of things (Losing his coworkers, finding out he's being turned into something not human, etc). You've all listened to the podcast lol.
I just want to remind y'all, this man is not weak. If you were to go through all of these things, your reactions, no matter what they are, would be so valid. Breaking down? Suspicious of everyone around you? Crying constantly? Shutting down? I wouldn't tell you that you're a weak or pathetic person for that. I know these are jokes, no one actually means it (I hope). So don't worry lol, all I want to do is address why sometimes it can go too far.
The conversation around toxic masculinity is this, I don't want people to fall into the trap of thinking "man going through a lot and struggling with emotions = weak, pathetic". He's anything but that. I also want to address that I have seen some people assume these things also make him more feminine and I am not talking about people's actual headcanons like trans hcs, go be free have fun run wild. I more so mean- Oh wow this man is going through a lot, he's clearly more.. feminine. No- Stop that lol
3. Jonathan Sims' Strengths and Why They Shouldn't Be Ignored:
Jon does not get strong magically in season 5. Actually, he displays a lot of characteristics that show he's very capable and very strong much earlier on. Regardless of the Eye's protection and power, I think even the coffin scene itself proves this man isn't pathetic. Regardless of whether he's human or not, and when the transformation begins to happen, this is a man who had two ribs pulled out of him and was able to walk after.
Jonathan Sims becomes extremely powerful even earlier on. He doesn't only struggle, he doesn't only yearn for knowledge, he does everything in his power to do what he thinks he has to. He doesn't give up, he doesn't get completely broken. Even when he thinks he's about to die, he tries to find a way out.
This man took a large axe and chopped down a large, ancient table, and immediately had to run from Not!Sasha.
I also think it's important to remember that Jon was being severely influenced by Michael Distortion for a time, when Jon was spiraling the most, Michael is showing up the most. (Yes Michael had his own plans and agenda, but you think he didn't thrive off of the Archivist losing trust in everyone including himself?).
He kills Hope, he can forcibly pull information from people before he comes close to ending the world, he can be manipulative, powerful, strong and cunning. He does not become an avatar of the Eye for no reason. He knows how to get information. He also was marked by the Web at an early age and it has repeatedly visited him and martin both. This man has power and uses it to his and other's benefit.
3b. Season 5 and JMart
And lastly, Jon and Martin's relationship. Something I cherish very much, and find to be one of the most realistic relationships, not to mention gay representation, that I have personally seen. Some think its problematic, toxic, etc, but I think that's misunderstanding both of them deeply. I can get into Martin's character in another post for the future. This is still Jon focused.
Jon does get very, very depressed in Season 5. He just ended the world (although it's not his fault), he doesn't see any way they can solve this, he feels powerful but at what cost? Everyone in the entire world is suffering. Martin is extremely optimistic, maybe as his own way to cope with the state of the world, and sure, these two clash sometimes. Sometimes Martin is pushy, even a bit manipulative, sometimes Jon refuses to hear Martin out. There are times Jon completely ignores what Martin is asking of him for his own benefit, and there are times Martin does the exact same thing. They argue, they bicker. But they also apologize, they laugh, they talk through things, they get emotional and are there for each other, they make mistakes, sure but they work to better themselves after or to address things rather than leave it to remain not talked about, and I think that is something incredibly important.
Jon isn't dragged around, Jon leads them through the dark. Jon goes through a lot and only he can understand what that's like and he makes a point to show when Martin completely misunderstands the situation or what Jon cant/wont do. You can't save the children at the end of the world. You can kill the child avatar, but will you? No. Martin realizes very quickly and backs down.
Jon, even in his most depressed state, at his absolute worst, still has a strong will. Even when he's beginning to accept defeat (how could one not), he still had a will. He leads on, he pushes through horrifying domains, and even when it greatly weakens his state, he lays low for awhile to help Martin rest. They both agree they left at the right time but that it was still necessary that they had that break.
Jon who still, despite everyone else's will, tries to take matters into his own hands so that the Fears do not go to other worlds.
Jonathan Sims is not weak, he is not pathetic. He's not just a "whimpering man" he's a man who's been through hell and back several, several times and survived, more than survived.
And I think we need to start remembering that again!
(If you read through this whole thing, hello, thanks!! and please let me know your thoughts, I'm happy to have a discussion)
My tendency to analyze and pick apart everything related to the magnus archives makes me forget that most of the time people's aus of the podcast are either just:
Main ship in a different font
Everything is the same except no one dies no one gets hurt and everyone is friends and there's no more horror and no more tragedy and the fears are just cool superpowers and they all take turns kicking elias in the shins and everything is okay forever
Feeling sad myself so I’m sitting here thinking of this scene and how it’s so dumb cause literally just the episode prior there’s THIS scene.
SOUNDS LIKE HE’S PRETTY FUCKING ARTICULATE ABOUT HIS EMOTIONS HERE, BABE, YOU JUST DIDN’T WANT TO HEAR THEM.
And yeah Martin’s point was him not being emotionally open and tbf he wasn’t talking about how he felt about smiting Not!Sasha but if THIS is Martin’s reaction, I can see why. Dismissive, dismissive, dismissive.
All that said, how is he supposed to talk about his feelings anyway if, as the first scene posits, he’s unable to articulate them beyond ‘sad’.
the thing about jm is that it would be so good and interesting and delicious if everyone would just admit that they're bad for each other. jm as an exploration of pursuing a relationship because you're so incapable of finding value in yourself, you have to outsource that value to the only person you know who likes you. except he doesn't actually like you, he likes the made up, unattainable version of you he's held, static, in his head since the first time you met. and so now the only way you can find self worth is by cramming yourself into a role that doesn't suit you, a role that makes you misersble. but it's okay. it's fine. better to be miserable and harmless in a role that will never fulfill you, if it means making this man (the only man who likes you, even if the you he likes is made up) happy, than face the role you actually want, the one that's dangerous, the one you can't accept, next to the man you can't accept sees you better than anyone else does.
but jm isn't that. it's just jon and martin saying "i love you alive boy" over and over for 40 episodes straight. which is also interesting. i guess.
You people will get into a piece of media with the most broken husk of a man as a protagonist and then insist on making him normal
The worst part is you're making him ordinary and well-adjusted in order to fit him into the blandest most common domestic relationship dynamic imaginable. But it's fine cause it's gay and also asexual so that means it's progressive right? Right?
Recently I've been trying to pin down the precise reason why I don't like Martin Blackwood (aside from the fact i find him annoying) and I think I've come to a realization of sorts.
It's not that I think he's badly written. (As I've stated in my previous posts, in my opinion he's quite well portrayed; by that i mean he makes the decisions i think a person like him would make. While his actions aren't often "the best" or however you want to phrase it, they can be understood if you tried to look at them from his point of view).
I dislike him because there's nothing unique to him.
Let me put it this way. He's a shy guy with an embarrassing crush, family issues and depression. He also expresses himself in that cartoonish manner usually associated with bubbly, insecure characters. But he doesn't tell a unique story.
If you didn't already like him for his anxious personality, then his backstory (and development) don't really give you any further reasons. He fits into the classic "shy character who's actually smart and cunning" archetype. He likes all the stereotypical softie things - poetry, tea, idealized romance, cozy sweaters (that part might be fanon tho), he's nice to animals and insects, and the whole revolutionary part about his character (that everyone praises him for) is that he's actually manipulative and hides it well.
His whole character seems to be built on a mix of those softie traits and trauma. Even his Lonely arc is just a metaphor for heavy depression. He's never affected by the horrors (beyond the impact it had on his mental condotion - duh) despite being the focus of a fear-apocalypse themed season.
Also it feels like his whole role, whatever it might've otherwise been, was changed in s5 to become an anchor for Jon to latch onto. His whole thing is that he's "still human" and can pull Jon back whenever he's being "too monstrous". Which is WEIRD, because not a season earlier he became a full-fledged avatar of the Lonely, even if it was partially on his own terms. He doesn't really feel like a hero of a horror fiction podcast, just an angsty queer romance. His biggest appeal is that he's relatable.
So funny that tma fans decided that the man who is known to schedule his time very carefully and plan everything incredibly well would be the kind to waste his time on getting multiple pointless divorces "for fun"
I'm gonna repeat myself again but it's astounding that some people still insist on calling martin a monsterfucker or a monster lover when he's barely a monster tolerater
I just realized the show really contributed to the idea of being an avatar to mean just having a cool power by not having martin suffer the consequences of being one or be changed by it or even being hungry. he can just vanish. no don't worry he is a good person and a human <3 he doesn't need to feed on fear to vanish into the fog <3 don't you worry about it
So funny that tma fans decided that the man who is known to schedule his time very carefully and plan everything incredibly well would be the kind to waste his time on getting multiple pointless divorces "for fun"
While it may be a funny thing for most people, it actually shows that none of you know how long getting a divorce actually takes. It's not something you can spontaneously decide to do on a random Thursday evening it's a long process
I have a deep admiration for Michael Shelley fans (not the Distortion variant. Og Michael Shelley) cause wow you're just inventing her like that. You're basically making a whole character from a bunch of sticks and twine. She's a homebrew for real
I would find the lonely a lot less bland if the fans didn't insist on pairing it with fog every single time. I'm not scared of english weather give me some metaphors
An age-old fandom joke is to make fun of season 2 Jon for “accusing Tim and Martin of murder” and “he suspected everyone but Not!Sasha.” I’m on a roll from my “did season 1 Jon dismiss statements” series, so now I gotta tackle this one!
My main goal is to point out the times he DID suspect Not!Sasha–and was the only human on the team to do so–but for the hell of it I’m going to keep a tally of how many times he mentions investigating/suspecting each person. I’m also going to note other out-of-place things Jon noticed, some of which were due to Leitner, but definitely played a role in confirming that someone within the archives was being deceptive.
I'm not saying that Jon could have avoided his fate if he had better friends, but man. So much unnecessary shit could have been prevented if the people in his environment actually cared about him and didn't just view him as more of a problem than a person
Jon, as a kid, had a habit of wandering into places he shouldn’t. So I propose as a teen he discovered parkour and that’s how he was able to get into Gertrude’s flat and also in his downtime he dresses like a skater in layered short sleeve over long sleeve shirts and wide legged pants. He alternates between wearing Converse and Vans but he prefers Vans.
