I think making the choices Jon and Martin made regarding the end of the end of the world out to be just about the other is extremely reductive.
Martin didn’t go with the Webs plan because it would ‘keep Jon with him.’ He went with the Webs plan cause it would cause the least amount of suffering. The ‘cosmic scale’ of human suffering he would have to ‘live with’ was HYPOTHETICAL. It wasn’t real. Not to him or the others. Saying that him wanting to stop the suffering of the people who, to him, ACTUALLY exist, was a byproduct of him wanting to ‘keep Jon with him’ is ignoring that even if Martin doesn’t care about others he still will do what he thinks to save them. Or buy enough time for someone else to. Why the FUCK are you making me DEFEND HIM. I fucking hate you.
On Jon’s end. Why do you think, if any of the others had gone up to stop him, that he wouldn’t do the exact same thing for them? Especially Georgie. I can understand not considering them cause they would leave his ass the moment the Panopticon went up, but let’s present a hypothetical. Say Georgie decided to stay or whatever. Convince him to try and release the fears. Whatever. Do you really think he would be fine and watch her burn with him? He was killing the world for hypotheticals. Would that not change when seeing the reality of it in front of him? With even some random person off the street? We can’t know the answer, but if you think he wouldn’t, you don’t know Jon at all.
Anyway. Convictions are for people not being tortured.
Placing all the weight of their choices when it comes to the suffering around them onto the other is reducing them to that relationship, ignoring their autonomy, and I hate you for it.
In addition, acting like their choices at the very end were because of some cosmic soulmate driven whatever is also extremely reductive and ignores that the show explicitly states that they are not fated to be with each other in every universe, let alone that one, and also the entire theme of free will and your choices being your own regardless of any influences. And I hate you for it.
I'm the exact opposite of "the statements are boring I just skip straight to dialogue" people. I love the statements more than anything. Yeessss..... give me one thousand million hours of Jonathan Sims narrating short horror stories.... wish there was a version of tma without the plot stuff so I could enjoy the stories without having to hear Jonathan Archivist Sims suffer all the time
I'm the exact opposite of "the statements are boring I just skip straight to dialogue" people. I love the statements more than anything. Yeessss..... give me one thousand million hours of Jonathan Sims narrating short horror stories.... wish there was a version of tma without the plot stuff so I could enjoy the stories without having to hear Jonathan Archivist Sims suffer all the time
guess who finally finished tma. anyway episode 200 is mmmm. okay I actually liked the ending a lot, and I loved Jon's decision 'cause. okay. "oh he's selfish and suicidal" sure! sure, whatever but also the great horror of this post apocalyptic world has been that there is no other option than victim and perpetrator (the exceptions being Georgie and Melanie, which is not the best tone choice for me but). and that is what the final decision is! will you (and the world, but right now the world just feels like you five) suffer and die, or will you pass it on? and character wise, for Jon, whose survival to the detriment of others is literally seen as his biggest sin, chosing to not pass it on is just. it's so good. it's such a good ending
and then he backtracks. this pissed me off i'm sorry. oh so he really dies for nothing and still plays into the Web's hand come ooooon can he get agency for five minutes i'm begging
Can't BELIEVE Martin didn't support Jon in his transition. Supportive boyfriend where 😒😒😒😒
Yes I meant Jon's transition to avatarhood and no Martin canonically did not support it 💔 sad but true
perfect opportunity to ask WHY ARE WE PUTTING PEOPLE UNDERWATER LIKE THIS PLEASE IM SO CONFUSED 😭
Firstof all im not putting them underwater im putting them in oil. Secon of all its so you can tell where the intrusive foreign post ends and my wonderful post starts. Third of all i like decorationss
with regards to the why would you headcanon someone as transphobic?
I'm trans. I meet a lot of transphobes. very often, cis people don't believe me because they always thought the transphobic people were nice. it's helpful to be able to talk about day to day transphobia in fictional characters, because it means a lot of cis people are more willing to see those same actions in real life.
and Martin has a lot in common with a lot of transphobes I've met to be honest. he's the sort of guy that would say he's not transphobic, but that I shouldn't use public bathrooms, or participate in sports. he's the sort of guy who wouldn't use my pronouns because it might confuse someone. he's the sort of guy who'd see me paint my nails and go, oh, I thought you were trans. he's the sort of guy who would over emphasise the pronouns when introducing me to someone, so as to show he got them right, but also immediately out me. and that can be a really harmful person to be near, because noone is willing to get on your side when you call that shit out.
Also wow what a stupid ass take. Dealing with complicated things in fiction is shown to be psychologically healthy.
Hope I'm not misinterpreting this but a lot of people have this view where if they have a favorite character, especially one they project onto, then that means that character is instantly exempt from any harmful traits or behaviours and exists only in the bubble of projection and self-recognition.
And that's fine. That is just one of the ways of engaging with fiction. But it's important to keep in mind that one person's experiences are not gonna be universal and also that exploring difficult topics in fiction does not mean you condone them.
Ultimately none of this matters because fictional characters are by definition fictional. Everyone is entitled to their own interpretation whether or not that interpretation cares to take the source material into account. You can stretch Martin Blackwood thin with your wildly opposite takes on him and none of it will matter cause he is not real and can't be harmed by it. It's just annoying to me personally that half the fandom will delightfully engage with homophobic twink Elias but if you dare to even try doing something similar with Martin you're a weirdo freak and a bad person. Do you hear yourself
Going back to this but like. Why would you be so against transphobic Martin when he would be a perfect match for the very popular fandom portrayal of transgender homophobic Elias. Martin slandering his boss for being transgender vs his boss slandering him for being gay. The ouroboros of ooc fandom jokes. You could milk it for another five years or so
the reason we have dedicated Martin hate blogs is that if you criticise him in the vast majority of the fandom you get curb stomped. like. I've met people irl who've heard I listen to fiction podcasts and come over to tell me how great TMA is and how Martin is their favourite character ever and he's done nothing wrong uwu. and had to leave the event early because I said I didn't really like him and made them so uncomfortable that they asked their boyfriend to get me to leave.
Big if true. If that happened to me I would stop talking to irl fans forever
Also that person said "[Martin] isn't even the most morally ambiguous" "he hasn't even harassed anyone" as if you're only allowed to dislike fictional characters for irl offenses. I know he's the least "morally ambiguous" cause if he was more fucked up them maybe I would actually like him! "He's fictional" I'm aware that's why hating on him doesn't hurt anyone. It's not like he'll hear me
Not to mention that. Well. Nobody seems to have that much of a problem with character hating when it comes to Elia- *gets shot*
If I see another person claiming that the statement of father Edwin Burroughs / desecrated host had multiple fears involved I'm gonna bite someone. It's spiral!! The main focus of the statement was fear of not being able to trust your perception of the world around you! Just because it offhandedly mentions a church window shifting to look like an eye and pale inhuman figures doesn't mean it's multiple entities. Focus on the big picture not the tiny details
I made it to the S3 finale in my TMA relisten today and was struck by one part of the statement in particular, when Elias says:
He hears her calling pathetically from the bottom of the graves, but by now he knows there is nothing he can do but stare. She begs to be released, to dream of this place no more, but there is nothing he can do.
So he watches her[.]
I just can’t stop imagining Jon the first, two, ten (?) times he has this dream, trying to reach down into the grave, to save Naomi, to save everyone else whose dreams he haunts–until he realises that no matter what he does, he cannot.
I got to this bit and immediately season 5 made so much more sense–when they are wandering through the fear domains, Martin is aghast at the suffering he sees, desperate to find some way to help those trapped in the domains, and frustrated with Jon’s repeated “there is nothing we can do” answer. It’s not that Jon doesn’t care, it’s not even that he Knows, it’s just that he has been witnessing and feeding on suffering like this for years and he has already tried and tried and tried to help those trapped.
And then there is the parallel between the way the people in the nightmares treat him, with disdain, as if he is a cruel monster (which tbf is a very valid response in their situation) and the way his colleagues treat him, especially in S4. Add to that his pre-existing survival guilt, and of course this man was going every extra mile to help those he can, getting his own rib removed to save Daisy.
the thing about jm is that it would be so good and interesting and delicious if everyone would just admit that they're bad for each other. jm as an exploration of pursuing a relationship because you're so incapable of finding value in yourself, you have to outsource that value to the only person you know who likes you. except he doesn't actually like you, he likes the made up, unattainable version of you he's held, static, in his head since the first time you met. and so now the only way you can find self worth is by cramming yourself into a role that doesn't suit you, a role that makes you misersble. but it's okay. it's fine. better to be miserable and harmless in a role that will never fulfill you, if it means making this man (the only man who likes you, even if the you he likes is made up) happy, than face the role you actually want, the one that's dangerous, the one you can't accept, next to the man you can't accept sees you better than anyone else does.
but jm isn't that. it's just jon and martin saying "i love you alive boy" over and over for 40 episodes straight. which is also interesting. i guess.
On that note, I don’t get why it’s so hard for people to believe that Jon went against the plan and became the Pupil because he genuinely believed it was the right thing to do? Like he made himself very clear during the entirety of TMA 199, we don’t have to guess at his motivations at all, but it’s MORE common for me to see some completely different reason given in meta or fics instead of…what he plainly said….including:
- He just did it in order to die (despite him expecting to live for centuries with Martin at his side while the fears starve) (despite him changing his mind to ASK MARTIN TO KILL HIM)
- He just did it for revenge (despite the ENTIRE SMITING ARC being about him deciding his revenge wasn’t worth it)
- He just did it because of the ~evil influence of the Eye~ (this one just feels cheap, like the only way anyone could disagree with the WEB’S PLAN was if they were being puppeted by Evil Forces).
- He “didn’t realize he’d be killing Martin” when…he wouldn’t be! Martin wasn’t in a domain, and Jon would have no reason to move him to the End domain! Martin would have lived as long as the world itself did, probably several lifetimes!
- He just “didn’t think it through” and “lol Jon stupid and reckless” and in the fluffy Somewhere Else fics he goes on and on about how Martin was clearly right about everything and now that he can think straight he realizes that :))
- That he really just wanted to be a part of the Eye and all the reasons and crying were just an act to cover up his ~monster lust~
Like. We got a finale centered around a moral quandary with no right answer. Jon was the ONLY one who chose one side of the options. We have a whole show building up to that choice, it makes perfect sense in character and he doesn’t try to hide his reasoning!! He tries to convince the others! He breaks down crying because he hates what they’re planning to do so much!! And it kills me that the last true choice of what Jon actually wanted and actually believed in just gets discarded and ignored because people are so intent on making a “the Web plan was 100% right, Jon should always just do what Martin says, love wins!!” moral out of it.
You don’t have to think Jon was RIGHT to respect that he had beliefs!
Pisses me off when people only enjoy Helen Distortion if they are forcing her into the role of a fujoshi jmart shipper. I'm sorry that beautiful woman should be lezzing out like crazy and you're gonna keep her from that just so she can be the audience of ur fave gay pairing?? Set my girl free
Pisses me off when people only enjoy Helen Distortion when they are forcing her into the role of a fujoshi jmart shipper. I'm sorry that beautiful woman should be lezzing out like crazy and you're gonna keep her from that just so she can be the audience of ur fave gay pairing?? Set my girl free
to be fair the tory leader irl rn is a black woman so i mean it's not exactly a conflict...
Okie👍👍 I mostly had in mind the past discourse regarding her design but thanku for the additional info
Pisses me off when people only enjoy Helen Distortion when they are forcing her into the role of a fujoshi jmart shipper. I'm sorry that beautiful woman should be lezzing out like crazy and you're gonna keep her from that just so she can be the audience of ur fave gay pairing?? Set my girl free
saw a post saying that jmart isn't codependent because martin refused to gouge his eyes out for jon, and instead chose to do a more logical option. and it was very. oh haha jon is so stupid and irrational thank god he has martin to be sensible for him.
and like. had martin been willing to help jon leave when he asked to, even if he wasn't willing to also leave, the world wouldn't have ended. or at the very least it would have taken longer. gouging out their eyes would have been better.
literally like omg i don't know why people mock john for exploring his options with blinding himself. like guys the world ends because he doesn't do that.... it's not illogical he isn't being paranoid the world is literally out to get him
Is there actual official tma merch cause I've never seen any. I only heard rumors of very ugly tshirts with horror artwork on them but nothing substantial
I have this curse where about an hour after posting a drawing of any kind I get an idea on how to make it better and then upgrade it but it feels dumb to delete the old version and post the new one so I just edit it in my original post. Multiple times.
getting into tma as an aroace person because everyone has told you the main character is ace and it's a horror podcast is just such a disappointment. like the horror is great and then it fizzles out because they're too busy doing amatonormativity.
omg PLEASE expand on this i wanna hear your complaints pls pls trust 🔥🔥
People still don't understand what being a fear avatar means. "Being an eye avatar would help me with-" no!!!! no!!! That's not how it works!! The fear entity is not there to serve you! You are there to feed it!
‘Martin’s obsession with [Jon]’ and it’s just him bringing him tea and telling him he looks like shit and should get better sleep like he does to literally every other character at the slightest provocation.
If Martin’s love of Jon was unconditional, he wouldn’t call him the antichrist behind his back or question him to his face about his humanity before they died btw 🫶
