Every single ship with Jon has chemistry and an interesting dynamic except for jmart. This is truly heartbreaking
@littledolphinchan you said so much that I decided against responding in the comments, so I’m going to reply to you here. I have also divided your response into sections to make it easier for me. And also you’re blue now ☆
“I mean, you listened to the podcast, right? Even if you consider their canonisation solely "a favour to the fans” you can’t deny that there was a significant buildup to that.“
There wasn’t much buildup to their romantic relationship, not really.
It started with Jon being rude (and unprofessional) towards Martin, and an implied crush on Martin’s side. The only interaction we got then was when Martin gave his Prentiss statement, and Jon treated him coldly. Then, during the Prentiss attack, they had their second major interaction (and a moment of brief closure of sorts?). But it didn’t amount to anything. Then Jon’s paranoia successfully destroyed nearly every relationship he had.
"S2 – S4, when Jon finally stopped being selfish and went from being cold towards Martin/barley considering his opinion, to feeling guilty when lying to him/seeing Martin as the only person he trusts, the one he would run off with. Viewing Martin’s side of things, it’s pretty clear to me that he cared for Jon since the start, if not romantically, then just as a person. For me, in that form, there was undeniable chemistry.”
Chemistry is not the same as attraction. Martin obviously had a crush on Jon, and was devastated when Jon was in a coma. But if I’m not wrong, chemistry refers more to the way the characters interact with eachother. Martin and Jon’s interactions before s5 were little more than a conversation between coworkers. And, the way i see it, the main reason in later seasons Jon started viewing Martin as the only person he can trust was less tied to romantic feelings of any sort, and more because he was the only person left that didn’t outright despise him for becoming a monster.
Yes, Martin cared, but he didn’t actually know Jon as a person. They were simply coworkers, stuck in the same, shitty, haunted office job.
“Yes, the escalation of their relationship during eyepocalypse can be viewed as forced, because they’re one of the only surviving people. I find it, in contrary, quite tragic, that they’re forced to take the start of their relationship through the nine circles of hell. And no, I don’t believe that the only reason they worked out is because they were forced to stick to each other. I don’t believe that because up to that moment, there was a consistent build up. Yes, those times are not quite healthy and are depressing, BUT ONLY BECAUSE ITS NOT REALLY A COMMON SITUATION, IS IT? Yes, they argue, but I see it as "they try their best”
While i agree with you that there was a build-up of sorts, i would argue that it felt more like it would lead to a friendship rather than outright romance. Jon has barely had any time to warm up to Martin, especially with the latter separating himself completely (I’m referring to the whole “succumbing to the Lonely” thing and Martin’s self-isolation - they didn’t even have a chance to properly talk!). The jump to romance felt like it was either forced by the writers, or made out of desperation (on Jon’s side - i mean, the whole “rescue Martin from the Lonely” thing was acting on impulse.)
Also, throughout season 5, there are multiple situations showing that jmart don’t really know eachother. Peter Lukas even called them out in his statement:
It all boils down to this, really. Neither of them really know the other person; Martin’s stuck on his “precious image of Jon”, as Elias said, and Jon? He’s utterly desperate to keep the remaining bits of humanity to his chest, and tossing himself into a relationship with someone that cares, or at least used to care about him is perfect for that.
Their relationship helps them both stay grounded and not succumb to monsterhood, not to mention that by staying with Jon Martin is shielded from the physical aspect of the horrors, which might just be the best case scenario for him. There are romantic feelings involved, I can’t deny it, but those feelings are based on their views of each other.
What I’m saying is they never got enough time to get to know each other, so they’re stuck on their made-up versions. This is not the basis for a healthy relationship.
I am aware that they’re literally walking through the apocalypse, and they don’t really have much room to work on themselves when there'sso much horror around, but my role isn’t to judge them based on whether their actions are justified or not. They’re fictional characters, and their relationship is just the usual toxic kind. It’s not unique to them, and therefore not very interesting.
I’m sure that if you’ve already warmed up to the characters, then this relationship is everything you could’ve wished for, but my issue is that I only slightly care for Jon, and I don’t look at the writing through rose-colored glasses like most jmart fans.
Also I’ve noticed that they’re not equal when it comes to their contribution to the relationship. Jon is almost constantly pushing his needs to the side, trying his best to make Martin comfortable and accommodate him as much as he can, considered the circumstances they’re in. But Martin doesn’t even try to express compassion towards Jon’s loss of humanity, he doesn’t offer him any help (for example he brushed off Jon’s need to make statements, saying that he doesn’t want to hear them because it makes him uncomfortable, and doesn’t pause to consider how Jon must feel in this situation.)
I understand that this is because of their circumstances. Hell, if I were surrounded by horror from all sides, I’d be constantly on edge as well. But it makes their relationship unhealthy.
Jon’s monsterhood is a big part of his character at that point, and Martin refusing to accommodate for his boyfriend’s new needs shows that he doesn’t actually care about the man, just for who he thought Jon once was. He sees Jon’s newfound powers as either an inconvenience or a tool for his personal use.
Examples of Martin’s ignorance and hypocrisy: /lh
However, while you absolutely are allowed to enjoy toxic relationships, my main problem with jmart is that it doesn’t give us anything new. That’s just a basic, supposedly romantic (described as such, although i have my doubts) relationship, with a certain amount of disgust and deflection from Martin’s side, which is what the rest of the cast was already doing.
Compare it to jonelias. It obviously isn’t a relationship that you wish to be in, but the dynamic is interesting. The monster and the one who caused him to be that way. You’re the one that hurt me the most and you love the monster you created. Peak toxic yaoi. Meanwhile jmart is mainly your usual toxic codependence between two people who don’t really know each other.
“And the statement that "Martin has better chemistry in ANY other ship”? Oh yeah, like what? Martim and archival polycule are the only few I can think of? Even if we don’t bring up secondary characters, do you truly believe he has more chemistry with ANYONE than mentioned 3 ships? I’d like to hear your opinion too!“ "Sorry, in the last paragraph I gave examples of Martin ships. Talking about Jon, there are a few interesting ones, such as ships with Daizy, Elias, Gerry and Tim. But still, I think Jmart has the most thought put into it”
I said that Jon has better chemistry with everyone than with Martin (being a direct result of them not knowing each other). By that i mean Jon has so much more in common with almost everyone except for Martin (and maybe characters like Georgie or Rosie).
In regards of my dislike of jmart, I feel like I’ve already explained myself sufficiently. And about Martin ships, i quite like early seasons MarTim. They look out for each other, and their bond feels genuine and natural.