March 2025

literally just saw your blog and thought hey, what the heck!

Personally I only have the capacity to hate one character, and that's Jonah Magnus (and even then I live how cunty he is for no reason lmao) so I'm just wondering what made you hate Martin in the first place?

That’s a good question!

Truth is, I didn’t really care about him before I got to season 5. He seemed like a typical shy sweet guy, and he didn’t bother me much. In season 4, when his whole “succumbing to the Lonely” thing started, I was curious as to where this was gonna lead. And then season 5 rolled around and all I got was a disappointment.

He’s still shy and anxious, but he also wants to take revenge on the people that wronged him, and that could’ve been quite alright with me if not for his utter lack of empathy towards his boyfriend. My main problem is not that it’s unrealistic - I’d actually say he’s written well and justified - but that it’s annoying. He’s petty and unempathetic and it gets on my nerves.

That’s probably because he didn’t mean much to me in the earlier seasons; most fans I see drooling over him already declared him beloved in season 1.

You’d think that spending so much time becoming an avatar of his own Martin would show some compassion towards Jon’s situation. But he berates the man for his new needs; off-handedly calls him a monster when he, too, is similar; and on two occasions he hits him because “he didn’t want to wait for Jon to finish his statement”. He describes himself as a carer yet fails to acknowledge the needs of the man closest to him. Which is what makes him realistic - those contradictions and flaws show his complexity - but it makes him annoying.

(I also don’t like that the narrative doesn’t paint their relationship as unhealthy, and because of that a great majority of fans skims over that aspect.)

My biggest issue is with Martin glazers tho. I cannot go a DAY without seeing something like “whoa Martin’s so sexy and awesome and such a good boyfriend!!! I would give him all the tea in the world!!!!” It’s also the same people who attack me for daring to have a different opinion.

In conclusion, he just gets on my nerves. I wouldn’t call myself a hardcore hater tho. I’m simply a humble fan of mister @martinblackwoodhater. He’s an inspiration to me, but im really just a guy. A separate entity. And since he hasnt posted any new hate in 3 days, i got bored and started formulating my own thoughts and opinions!! This is all organic babey!!

I feel like i could change my view of him tho. I’m biased now so i can’t churn out a new interpretation myself, but if any Martin fans want to engage in a discussion then please count me in!! I looove nuanced takes!!!

Sometimes I mourn for the version of season 5 I thought I was going to hear. I loved the whole plotline of Jon trying to save Martin from the lonely. Because Jon felt responsible for him, and Martin was the only one of Jon's assistants left. and I was convinced I was going to see Jon realising that he actually didn't like Martin.

Because like. throughout the podcast Jon is continually choosing to try to get power and information in order to protect the people around him. He's willing to sacrifice his friendships, his safety, his humanity, because he cares, even for people who have tried to kill him. He tries to kill Not Sasha, someone he remembers being friends with, in order to protect the others. And then Martin gets offered the chance to kill Jonah Magnus and free all the employees and he turns it down because he's a person! and he wants to have friends!

and they're just so incompatible and I thought we'd get to see Jon wondering if it was worth it to save Martin, and all this delicious stuff. and the creators said they wouldn't make the relationship canon!

and then we got season 5 instead.

any thoughts?

Yeah. You covered basically everything I’ve been criticizing. Literally every single tma critical post I’ve made circles around these topics. (Under the cut bc I just learned how to make those)

Season 4 felt like a build-up to something huge. We got nearly all of the cast hating Jon for something completely out of his control. We got Martin trying to pull off a self-sacrifice. We got introduced to the Extinction, told that it was a terrible danger to everyone and that it had to be stopped. A lot of things were happening at once, and there was a looot of tension between the characters.

Then comes time for the big reveal, and it really was big. We found out what happened to Jonah Magnus and the real reason why the Institute was built. Martin also got to show that he’s not as weak and helpless as everyone thought.

Jon’s desperate attempt to pull Martin out of the Lonely was little more than that. By that point, Martin was literally the only person that didn’t outright despise Jon for becoming an Avatar, and that might be simply because he and Martin didn’t even talk once. Another reason for Jon’s lack of hesitation might be that he realized the crush Martin used to have on him, and so saving the man might’ve given him the hope of finding someone who’d treat him like a person, not a monster. All in all, it had less to do with romantic feelings, and more with desperation and the difficult situation Jon had found himself in.

There is no real build-up to them getting together. It’s just… one moment they’re in the Lonely, desperate to find one another, and a moment later they’re saying “I love you” and kissing eachother. When did that happen? And don’t say “well it was during the time they spent in the safehouse together!” Then why are they so painfully incompatible throughout season 5? Seriously, I get the whole “grasping at eachother for balance” thing, but was there really a need to make them a couple so soon? The build-up felt more like it would lead to a friendship, not outright romance - which is why their relationship felt so surface-level in the following season.

I completely missed the transition to the Safehouse on my first listen, and honestly I’m still not sure how it all happened. Jon and Martin’s conversations there seem light and at ease, but they have no real basis for a meaningful bond.

And yeah, there’s the issue with their contributions to their relationship being unequal. Jon is bending over backwards trying to accommodate Martin, leaving when he feels the need to make a statement, trying to explain everything as best as he can while carrying the weight of the world’s suffering on his shoulders. He’s not perfect, but it’s more than enough considering the situation they’re in.

But Martin? He’s selfish in his behaviour, even if it’s not outright visible. He refuses to listen to Jon talking about the fearscape because it makes him uncomfortable. He doesn’t try to look at the situation from Jon’s point of view - admittedly, that would’ve been very difficult, but he could’ve at least tried to show some support. He’s repulsed by Jon’s new needs, and, when they’re at Salesa’s, he laughs at Jon when he’s stripped of the Eye’s power. All of those behaviours are understandable of course, but it makes their relationship that ordinary kind of unhealthy; even tho they have their moments, ultimately they’re just two people staying together despite not getting on very well. It was spelled out for them by Peter Lukas:

(I’ve lost count of how many times I used this screenshot)

Peter was trying to upset Jon here of course. But that doesn’t change the fact it’s true. They just don’t have a basis for a meaningful relationship, because they barely even spoke. And yet they’re the focus of an entire season.

Yeah, yeah, it’s because of their circumstances, sure. But nearly every single fan looks at their relationship through rose-colored glasses. Better yet, I’ve seen people describe TMA as a “gay horror podcast” just because of jmart. And it’s infuriating, because their relationship gives us nothing. These two men talked for the first time in what? Months? And the writers decided “yeah we’ll make them boyfriends! This will be a hit with the gay fans for sure!” and then they wrote the blandest possible relationship they could’ve. It’s like your parents who constantly bicker yet don’t want to get a divorce. Just two coworkers in an apocalyptic world, and suddenly it’s “gay horror”.

Also they’re so obviously unhealthy, and yet the narrative just… ignores it. There aren’t any real consequences to their lack of compability, which is weird!! Really? No consequences? In MY inevitable consequences of your actions podcast?

Let’s talk abot Martin, because of course it all comes back to him. My main issue with the man is that he thinks in black and white. When the Avatars kill people it’s for their Patrons and out of their twisted desire, and so they’re bad and evil. When he kills people(through Jon), then it’s taking revenge on those monsters that hurt him, so it’s right, and it’s good. When Martin first witnessed Jon’s new “powers”, it’s him who came up with the idea of using it for revenge. And as long as it’s his initiative and Jon is only doing it for him, then it’s good and morally correct. But when he noticed Jon started to enjoy the killing, then suddenly it’s “wrong” and “not okay”, because “you weren’t supposed to enjoy it this much!” (Please be for real.) His perception of “right” and “wrong” is whatever is most convenient for him at that moment.

My other issue with Martin is that the Lonely barely even affected him. It was more like “heavy depression but make it Supernatural”. Season 4 started sculpting him into an interesting character, someone who’s ready to sacrifice himself yet cannot stand the thought of his friends getting hurt in the process. His whole Lonely arc gave him depth. He was focused. He had a plan. He made a decision and was ready to pull through with it.

But then he gets thrown into the Forsaken by Peter, and by the time Jon pulls him out, he’s exactly where he started. The same insufferable brand of nervousness and indecision and lack of understanding. Turned back into the nerd emoji. Like… the whole “Martin being an avatar of the Lonely” thing could serve as an explanation to the shallow nature of their relationship - it could be the Lonely pulling them further apart! Or Martin realizing he lost feelings for Jon and quietly distancing himself from the man! Delicious inescapable tragedy!

So yeah. There’s not a word said about their shitty bond, and it’s the main focus of the last season. Boring boring boring!!! The wonderful opportunity to make them both monstrous was MISSED!!! Of cooourse Martin is unaffected by the Lonely, it’s because he’s with Jon! Martin helps Jon regain his humanity! The Eye approves of their relationship!! Also the whole “you are my reason” part was, like, the easiest way to make Jon not suicidal, for which he had all the reasons imaginable. That man hated himself for being a monster, and everyone else hated him too!! But noo he’s with Martin now! The power of love cured him of depression! But not Martin tho, he deserves to wallow in his suffering, even though Jon had it just as bad if not worse. They had to divide them into “the one who’s a monster and losing himself” and “the one responsible for keeping the monster at a leash”. I apologize for the odd wording, i don’t know how else to phrase it.

Perfect opportunity to make fucked up monstrous tragic gays, and we got toxic teenage couple instead. The whole apocalyptic setting was TERRIFYINGLY UNDERUTILIZED!!!!! Also the s5 plot felt like they were just. Dragging the whole thing. The finale was cool, moral dilemma and all, but everything before that? Unremarkable. Questionable, even. I only liked the statements. (But tbh I mainly only like the statements.)

Real thought im the doorway anon again I'm gonna name myself doorway anon because of that misspelling

I don't give a shit about ships either but I like to read fanfics once in ages and Gerry and Michael are my favourite characters so I like it when it's focused on them especially Gerry I love Gerry I like it when something is focused mostly on him or halfly of him because I relate to him a lot

But tma would have been so much better without any canon ships though

STATEMENTS ON TOP STATEMENTS I WAT THE STATEMENTS

i was excited about jmart when I first got into it but a year later......get it away from me......

Also random but I hate timsasha and jackagnea or whatever MY AROAMANTIC QUEENS TRUST

agnes is Def aroace

Oh yeaaaah. Jmart being canon ruined the whole experience for sure. And I’m not saying it like “well since the podcast is horror focused, there shouldn’t be any romance, just scary!”. I just wish the romance included the horror aspect. More gothic perhaps? Instead we got “two coworkers walking through the apocalypse holding hands”.

Because of jmart the horror bit was pushed aside in season 5, which ironically takes place in the fearscape, so it should’ve been horror FOCUSED. Dumb as hell. Hate it forever.

Also most fanfics are either 1) Jmart centric or 2) terribly out of character. Or both. The only good tma fic I have ever read was an AU in which Jon was a fairy. And even then they had nothing left of the original characters.

I agree with aroace Agnes it’s such a cool concept. She was raised in almost complete isolation from “normality”, so I feel like her fascination with relationships in general came from the fact that it was all alien to her. She was only ever a Messiah. It’s not like she got the chance to hold hands with people before. It’s just like with the coffee she never drank - she wanted the experience, a fairytale version of something actually mundane. I mean, it’s the things you never got to try that you want the most.

Your blog has become my favourite since i discovered it so i might start asking too many questions.

Is there a character that you despise almost as much as Martin? Whether because you dislike how the fandom depicts them, or because of their personality, or for no reason at all.

There’s never too many questions. I love answering them ♡

I actually don’t have such a strong opinion on any of the other characters, at least not regarding their canon versions. Truth be told, I never cared much about those people. The statements are my favourite part, although if I had to choose a fave then it would be Jon, simply because of his voice. I love it when he reads the statements.

In regards of the characters, there are a lot of moments that make me feel an all-consuming rage. But they were all done for a reason and in character, so I have nothing to complain about. In order to do that properly, I would have to do an in-depth analysis, and my opinions aren’t strong enough to do that yet.

I do have a problem with a few fanon depictions tho.

One: It’s the fans that made me really dislike Martin. It’s actually kind of interesting in its own way, since the dogshit awful fanon version was so bad that it motivated me to analyze his character, and form my own opinion. In many ways, TMA fandom sucks absolute booty. I can only consume TMA-related content from a few hand-picked blogs or else I will die painfully.

(Also there is a large part of transmasc Martin headcanons that are sooo icky….. A lot of people who do that see him as weak and feminine and so so sweet and that’s just plain weird?? Seeing him as a little fat cutie and also slapping the trans headcanon on him. Feels like you just wanna baby trans men)

Two: I read once that depicting Daisy as a butch is enforcing a quite harmful stereotype of butches being inherently violent. Especially since we’re told that she chose the nickname ‘Daisy’ to appear softer, sweeter.

Three: Fans of Michael Shelley (NOT The Distortion) that swear he’s their favourite character are… odd. I mean, like who you like, it’s alright! But Michael wasn’t even there. His only purpose in the story was to be thrown away - “poor, disposable Michael”. The only things we know about him were told to us by The Distortion - that he had a friend who got consumed by the Spiral, that he wanted to avenge them, and so that’s why he joined the Institute. I get liking him, but placing him as your favourite character?

Most of his fans that I’ve seen only use him as a vessel for shipping. They can slap basically anything on him and it will stick, because he’s nothing more than an empty shell. You can’t even analyze him, because there’s nothing to analyze.

Four: A lot of the widely accepted fanon designs are plain unrealistic. And I don’t mean unrealistic as fantasy, I mean that their appearance doesn’t fit with the setting of the story at all. Those are all adults in their early thirties if I’m correct, working in a semi-professional, academic environment. They wouldn’t wear frilly skirts, or maximalist outfits with a hundred accessories, or several pride pins.

I get that it’s fun to dress up your fave like a doll, but please. Slapping fifty headcanons on a boring office worker makes you lose the essence of the character in the process, and they just become an oc in the end. Not to mention that too many headcanons erase the character’s personality entirely. A character’s personality and certain habits are reflected in the way they would dress.

Another thing regarding the designs is that people get soooo pressed when someone’s design of the character doesn’t match the widely accepted fanon. I know, I just spent over a paragraph criticizing designs as well, but in reality it’s not that serious. I don’t care nearly as much as you may think I do. But when someone makes Jon white, or, worse, Martin skinny - people are gonna go “uhhmmm…. that’s not MY blorbo….. what did you do to him……” and it’s so weird! This is a podcast character! We only got a few vague lines about their physical description! You can draw them however you like and it might as well have been canon! You never know!

I love talking. @neurodiev1rgin never stop sending me asks. They actually help me get my thoughts and opinions in order

Hehe me again 👉👈

What do you think was Jonny's reason to make Jon and Martin end up together? I, for the longest time, just accepted that it was just fanservice. We've known about Martin's crush since season three, and Jmart was popular, so he rewarded people that were hoping for it to be canon, but I don't really like that hypothesis; it kind of feels too much like a "the curtains are just blue" way of thinking.

I tried putting something together; maybe Jmart was meant to be a parallel of Daisy and Basira, with Basira loving (platonically or not) Daisy when she's at her most monstrous, and Martin hating Jon for it, but idk if it really makes sense because Martin likes the idea of killing people as long as HE sees fit.

I'm not MatPat, i'm really bad at theorising so i would like to see your perspective on this.

For me, it still feels like the first reason is true: the fans liked the characters, and so the writers just smooshed them together. I mentioned previously that Jon and Martin’s jump to romance feels rushed to me. The build-up they got felt like it would lead to a friendship at most.

The paralell to Daisy and Basira is interesting. Basira liked Daisy at her most monstrous. Martin liked Jon at his most human.

Except Basira admits that later on. The nature of her relationship with Daisy is outlined and highlited, and more visible to the viewer. The narrative never does that with Jon and Martin: it’s just made to be that whole “you are my reason” thing.

The canon provided us with an interesting dynamic and then did nothing to explore it, or at least explain it, resulting in a lot of fans seeing them as cutesy and lovey-dovey.

It also explains Martin’s reasoning in the last episodes on s5. He didn’t want for Jon to become a monster, not out of sympathy, but because he doesn’t like Jon monstrous and tied to the Eye. He is repulsed by Avatar-Jon. This also adds to the nuance of their relationship, considering that being an avatar is, at that time, a very large part of Jon’s very being. He can’t get rid of it without ripping out parts of himself. The version of Jon that Martin loves doesn’t exist anymore. Maybe it never existed at all.

MARTIN

[Petulantly] Of course it is. Of course it is! Because how could this journey possibly end with anything less than the final, supreme destiny of the Archivist, plugged into the great fear machine for all eternity and, and abandoning humanity.

Breaking his promise. (MAG 194)

MARTIN

Because she said if I did, she’d leave without me. And then… well… we’d have had to stick with crappy Plan A, and you’d… you’d end up gone. (MAG 198)

GEORGIE

Spread the fears to other realities.

Option two is John takes over from Magnus. Keeps the Powers contained here with us, and tries his best to make the place a little more… tolerable, until the end.

MARTIN

And we lose him. (MAG 199)

I still think the romance was unnecessary. All of this could’ve been done without these two kissing, and maybe that would’ve made the fans stop obsessing over the ship just beause it’s canon and actually focus on the horror part every once in a while.

Idk you or another person already talked about this, but one of the biggest reason as to why i can't understand HOW people think Jmart are a perfect couple is this

Mag 172

He literally slapped him just because he didn't want to wait? Why did everyone just forget about this? I don't remember if Jon by S5 still feels pain, but even if he didn’t, there is no reason to do that; he could just shake him or call him instead; Martin wasn't in a desperate situation where he needed Jon to wake up fast, he just did it.

Mag 173

He thanks Martin for not hitting him? Wtf. He did only slap Jon for no reason this one time, but i'm pretty sure hitting your lover more than zero times is not normal

Their relationship definitely isn’t all sunshine and rainbows like the fandom likes to paint it. And it pisses me off!! “You were starting another and I didn’t want to wait” to where are you rushing in the place where time doesn’t function anymore? You’re gonna be surrounded by horror in a few minutes anyway.

It could’ve been good if presented correctly, but all jonmartin content/fanart I see says something like “the slowest slow burn ever aww” “the Antichrist with his boyfriend!” “They’re looking at cows!” “Martin fell first Jon fell harder” and ugh. It could’ve been bearable. Fine, even. But it’s all that there is. There is NO terrible broken incompatible jmart (beyond the “ouuugh you made me stab youu, how could you do that??” thing AND EVEN THAT makes Jon seem like he’s the only one at fault).

Because of this a lot of people decide to get into TMA with the fluffy fanon version of jmart already in their minds, and when they get to season 5, they aren’t prepared to look past the “apocalyptic gays” version which they’ve internalized. Some of them even go so far as to skip the statements in favor of dialogue, because they’re boring.

Everyone collectively missed all the nuance in favor of a bland gay pairing that doesn’t even work like that in canon. Please engage with the source material beyond looking at what you want to see. There’s media with queer representation that doesn’t involve horror! You don’t have to specifically get into a horror fiction podcast just to ignore the horror part and listen to gay men talk!