literally just saw your blog and thought hey, what the heck!
Personally I only have the capacity to hate one character, and that's Jonah Magnus (and even then I live how cunty he is for no reason lmao) so I'm just wondering what made you hate Martin in the first place?
That’s a good question!
Truth is, I didn’t really care about him before I got to season 5. He seemed like a typical shy sweet guy, and he didn’t bother me much. In season 4, when his whole “succumbing to the Lonely” thing started, I was curious as to where this was gonna lead. And then season 5 rolled around and all I got was a disappointment.
He’s still shy and anxious, but he also wants to take revenge on the people that wronged him, and that could’ve been quite alright with me if not for his utter lack of empathy towards his boyfriend. My main problem is not that it’s unrealistic - I’d actually say he’s written well and justified - but that it’s annoying. He’s petty and unempathetic and it gets on my nerves.
That’s probably because he didn’t mean much to me in the earlier seasons; most fans I see drooling over him already declared him beloved in season 1.
You’d think that spending so much time becoming an avatar of his own Martin would show some compassion towards Jon’s situation. But he berates the man for his new needs; off-handedly calls him a monster when he, too, is similar; and on two occasions he hits him because “he didn’t want to wait for Jon to finish his statement”. He describes himself as a carer yet fails to acknowledge the needs of the man closest to him. Which is what makes him realistic - those contradictions and flaws show his complexity - but it makes him annoying.
(I also don’t like that the narrative doesn’t paint their relationship as unhealthy, and because of that a great majority of fans skims over that aspect.)
My biggest issue is with Martin glazers tho. I cannot go a DAY without seeing something like “whoa Martin’s so sexy and awesome and such a good boyfriend!!! I would give him all the tea in the world!!!!” It’s also the same people who attack me for daring to have a different opinion.
In conclusion, he just gets on my nerves. I wouldn’t call myself a hardcore hater tho. I’m simply a humble fan of mister @martinblackwoodhater. He’s an inspiration to me, but im really just a guy. A separate entity. And since he hasnt posted any new hate in 3 days, i got bored and started formulating my own thoughts and opinions!! This is all organic babey!!
I feel like i could change my view of him tho. I’m biased now so i can’t churn out a new interpretation myself, but if any Martin fans want to engage in a discussion then please count me in!! I looove nuanced takes!!!
ive seen your jmart hate and analysis (and i think its starting to sway me), so i ask you… how do you feel about jon/gerry ?? ik they only have one episode together but even then (to me) their chemistry was so good, plus how gerry seems to be FAR. more accepting of jon’s avatarhood than martin in s5. for example when gerry asks “do you like it?” in reference to Compelling people and his role as archivist and jon replies “i suppose i do,” gerry doesnt seem phased at all. he rolls with it. and dont even get me started on jon promising to burn his page.
also if you dislike jon/gerry i wont attack <3 im just a big fan of them hoping to discuss . if you dont like them, who do you ship jon with (if anyone)?
Ooooohhhh. JonGerry. JonGerry my beloved. Imo best Jon ship cause they fit together so perfectly.
Gerry is almost a polar opposite to Martin (especially concerning their respective relationships with Jon). He was practically raised among the Fears. They’re his reality. His entire life was dedicated to them - from tracking down Leitners and disrupting the rituals with Gertrude, to being Eye-aligned himself. He is painfully aware of the Fears’ impact on the world, and, more importantly, the people around him.
He and Jon would work really well together, both as friends and as partners, because when it comes to it they’re quite similar.
Both Jon and Gerry were used by others for nearly the entirety of their lives. Jon was a puppet of the Web since he was a little kid, being subtly nudged and poked so that eventually he would become the Archivist and doom the world; he was also manipulated by Elias during his time in the Institute. Gerry was a tool for his mother; being isolated from his peers because of his upbringing, he had no choice but to become involved in her work. He hunted down Leitners, at first for her, and, when he realized the degree of Mary’s selfishness, he begun to seek them out in order to destroy them. Later, when he met Gertrude and started working at the Institute, once again he became the assistant; and while Gertrude was significantly kinder to him than Mary, he still ended up getting used and discarded.
Gerry hated his mother for her obsession with the Leitners, but couldn’t run away from her because she raised him in the knowledge of the Fears. Because of that no other person could understand him or his point of view, so he had no choice but to stay. Jon grows to hate Elias because he’s the one who (indirectly) caused him to become a monster, and yet Jon still would turn to him for help and advice because only Elias ever truly understood him.
Gerry would be much more accepting of Jon’s avatarhood because he himself had a very similar experience, and thus he’d be capable of understanding him, sympathizing with him, and not just call him a cruel monster like most of the cast. He would be able to understand Jon at his worst, and thus be capable of appreciating him at his best. Other people see Jon’s human side as the only part that’s truly “him” (“How much of you is even left now?” - The Jon that Martin is in love with and Avatar Jon are regarded as two different people), but Gerry would actually have knowledge of how the Fears work. He would be aware of how much the “human” Jon and “avatar” Jon are intertwined. He would see Jon as a whole. He wouldn’t divide the man into “pre-avatar” and “post-avatar” categories, because he knows it doesn’t work like that. He knows that it wasn’t Jon’s fault he became an avatar, and wouldn’t blame him for it.
To summarize I think they’re perfect for eachother. They get eachother so well ughhh. Can’t really say much about their interaction because I don’t remember it that well, but I recall it being significantly smoother than whatever Jon had going on with Martin.
whats your take on the theory that The Archivist as a an avatar serves not just the eye but also the web? i mean we know that the web is the "true mastermind" behind everything that happens in tma and that the tape recorders specifically are more of a web thing than an eye thing. but i always thought that the archivists power to make people tell them things instead of simply knowing them also has a webiness to it. thoughts?
I think the Archivist doesn’t serve the Web, he’s a victim of it. But you’re right, the compulsion thing kinda falls under the category of Web. On the other hand, it would be quite difficult to make a Fear whose manifestations are completely separate from eachother, so it may be a result of the Fears overlapping in some aspects.
The Archivist’s compulsion seems more about the fear of having your secrets forcibly revealed, rather than of manipulation itself.
The aspect you highlited points more to the similarity of The Web and The Eye as fears. All of the Fears bleed into eachother, but some are more like a “can’t truly exist without the other” thing. I think that’s the case here.
apologies if you've already discussed this, but thoughts on daisy/basira?
They’re neat. They have a very interesting dynamic and yet I rarely see anyone talking about them.
When working with Daisy, Basira noticed that the Hunt was consuming her. Or, more accurately, she took note of Daisy’s unnecessary killings, and did nothing about them. In fact, it was the Hunt-driven Daisy that she liked the most - strong and violent, enjoying her kills. In that way Basira is the complete opposite of Martin; while he liked only the “human” part of Jon, Basira preferred Daisy’s monstrous side.
When Daisy emerged from the coffin, weakened and no longer with a purpose, Basira treated her coldly. I feel like it was deliberate: we were told earlier that she is someone who can hide her emotions pretty well, and so not attempting to conceal her dismay might’ve been a conscious choice on her side.
After finding out about Jon’s feedings, while bashing and insulting the man she also protects Daisy, claiming that her Hunting “wasn’t the same”. Because she liked it. Because she liked Daisy being like this.
After the Eyepocalypse begun, Basira had already managed to admit to herself that she liked the power she had while working with the police. She also realized the reason for her feelings towards Daisy. Despite that, she kept the promise she made to Daisy and hunted her, killing her in the end. She turns down Daisy’s offer to join the Hunt, which both shows her growth as a character, and, in its own way, is kind of tragic.
Sometimes I mourn for the version of season 5 I thought I was going to hear. I loved the whole plotline of Jon trying to save Martin from the lonely. Because Jon felt responsible for him, and Martin was the only one of Jon's assistants left. and I was convinced I was going to see Jon realising that he actually didn't like Martin.
Because like. throughout the podcast Jon is continually choosing to try to get power and information in order to protect the people around him. He's willing to sacrifice his friendships, his safety, his humanity, because he cares, even for people who have tried to kill him. He tries to kill Not Sasha, someone he remembers being friends with, in order to protect the others. And then Martin gets offered the chance to kill Jonah Magnus and free all the employees and he turns it down because he's a person! and he wants to have friends!
and they're just so incompatible and I thought we'd get to see Jon wondering if it was worth it to save Martin, and all this delicious stuff. and the creators said they wouldn't make the relationship canon!
and then we got season 5 instead.
any thoughts?
Yeah. You covered basically everything I’ve been criticizing. Literally every single tma critical post I’ve made circles around these topics. (Under the cut bc I just learned how to make those)
Season 4 felt like a build-up to something huge. We got nearly all of the cast hating Jon for something completely out of his control. We got Martin trying to pull off a self-sacrifice. We got introduced to the Extinction, told that it was a terrible danger to everyone and that it had to be stopped. A lot of things were happening at once, and there was a looot of tension between the characters.
Then comes time for the big reveal, and it really was big. We found out what happened to Jonah Magnus and the real reason why the Institute was built. Martin also got to show that he’s not as weak and helpless as everyone thought.
Jon’s desperate attempt to pull Martin out of the Lonely was little more than that. By that point, Martin was literally the only person that didn’t outright despise Jon for becoming an Avatar, and that might be simply because he and Martin didn’t even talk once. Another reason for Jon’s lack of hesitation might be that he realized the crush Martin used to have on him, and so saving the man might’ve given him the hope of finding someone who’d treat him like a person, not a monster. All in all, it had less to do with romantic feelings, and more with desperation and the difficult situation Jon had found himself in.
There is no real build-up to them getting together. It’s just… one moment they’re in the Lonely, desperate to find one another, and a moment later they’re saying “I love you” and kissing eachother. When did that happen? And don’t say “well it was during the time they spent in the safehouse together!” Then why are they so painfully incompatible throughout season 5? Seriously, I get the whole “grasping at eachother for balance” thing, but was there really a need to make them a couple so soon? The build-up felt more like it would lead to a friendship, not outright romance - which is why their relationship felt so surface-level in the following season.
I completely missed the transition to the Safehouse on my first listen, and honestly I’m still not sure how it all happened. Jon and Martin’s conversations there seem light and at ease, but they have no real basis for a meaningful bond.
And yeah, there’s the issue with their contributions to their relationship being unequal. Jon is bending over backwards trying to accommodate Martin, leaving when he feels the need to make a statement, trying to explain everything as best as he can while carrying the weight of the world’s suffering on his shoulders. He’s not perfect, but it’s more than enough considering the situation they’re in.
But Martin? He’s selfish in his behaviour, even if it’s not outright visible. He refuses to listen to Jon talking about the fearscape because it makes him uncomfortable. He doesn’t try to look at the situation from Jon’s point of view - admittedly, that would’ve been very difficult, but he could’ve at least tried to show some support. He’s repulsed by Jon’s new needs, and, when they’re at Salesa’s, he laughs at Jon when he’s stripped of the Eye’s power. All of those behaviours are understandable of course, but it makes their relationship that ordinary kind of unhealthy; even tho they have their moments, ultimately they’re just two people staying together despite not getting on very well. It was spelled out for them by Peter Lukas:
(I’ve lost count of how many times I used this screenshot)
Peter was trying to upset Jon here of course. But that doesn’t change the fact it’s true. They just don’t have a basis for a meaningful relationship, because they barely even spoke. And yet they’re the focus of an entire season.
Yeah, yeah, it’s because of their circumstances, sure. But nearly every single fan looks at their relationship through rose-colored glasses. Better yet, I’ve seen people describe TMA as a “gay horror podcast” just because of jmart. And it’s infuriating, because their relationship gives us nothing. These two men talked for the first time in what? Months? And the writers decided “yeah we’ll make them boyfriends! This will be a hit with the gay fans for sure!” and then they wrote the blandest possible relationship they could’ve. It’s like your parents who constantly bicker yet don’t want to get a divorce. Just two coworkers in an apocalyptic world, and suddenly it’s “gay horror”.
Also they’re so obviously unhealthy, and yet the narrative just… ignores it. There aren’t any real consequences to their lack of compability, which is weird!! Really? No consequences? In MY inevitable consequences of your actions podcast?
Let’s talk abot Martin, because of course it all comes back to him. My main issue with the man is that he thinks in black and white. When the Avatars kill people it’s for their Patrons and out of their twisted desire, and so they’re bad and evil. When he kills people(through Jon), then it’s taking revenge on those monsters that hurt him, so it’s right, and it’s good. When Martin first witnessed Jon’s new “powers”, it’s him who came up with the idea of using it for revenge. And as long as it’s his initiative and Jon is only doing it for him, then it’s good and morally correct. But when he noticed Jon started to enjoy the killing, then suddenly it’s “wrong” and “not okay”, because “you weren’t supposed to enjoy it this much!” (Please be for real.) His perception of “right” and “wrong” is whatever is most convenient for him at that moment.
My other issue with Martin is that the Lonely barely even affected him. It was more like “heavy depression but make it Supernatural”. Season 4 started sculpting him into an interesting character, someone who’s ready to sacrifice himself yet cannot stand the thought of his friends getting hurt in the process. His whole Lonely arc gave him depth. He was focused. He had a plan. He made a decision and was ready to pull through with it.
But then he gets thrown into the Forsaken by Peter, and by the time Jon pulls him out, he’s exactly where he started. The same insufferable brand of nervousness and indecision and lack of understanding. Turned back into the nerd emoji. Like… the whole “Martin being an avatar of the Lonely” thing could serve as an explanation to the shallow nature of their relationship - it could be the Lonely pulling them further apart! Or Martin realizing he lost feelings for Jon and quietly distancing himself from the man! Delicious inescapable tragedy!
So yeah. There’s not a word said about their shitty bond, and it’s the main focus of the last season. Boring boring boring!!! The wonderful opportunity to make them both monstrous was MISSED!!! Of cooourse Martin is unaffected by the Lonely, it’s because he’s with Jon! Martin helps Jon regain his humanity! The Eye approves of their relationship!! Also the whole “you are my reason” part was, like, the easiest way to make Jon not suicidal, for which he had all the reasons imaginable. That man hated himself for being a monster, and everyone else hated him too!! But noo he’s with Martin now! The power of love cured him of depression! But not Martin tho, he deserves to wallow in his suffering, even though Jon had it just as bad if not worse. They had to divide them into “the one who’s a monster and losing himself” and “the one responsible for keeping the monster at a leash”. I apologize for the odd wording, i don’t know how else to phrase it.
Perfect opportunity to make fucked up monstrous tragic gays, and we got toxic teenage couple instead. The whole apocalyptic setting was TERRIFYINGLY UNDERUTILIZED!!!!! Also the s5 plot felt like they were just. Dragging the whole thing. The finale was cool, moral dilemma and all, but everything before that? Unremarkable. Questionable, even. I only liked the statements. (But tbh I mainly only like the statements.)
hello !! id say im a jonmartin fan (not my top jon ship tho lmao…jongerry forever) but i like them best with their nuances and not the blorboified version of them. so i have something to offer.
jon and martin fall in love with each other much in the same way they know to receive/take love from their family members.
martin’s mother was shown to be callous and verbally mean to him. im not saying jon is as bad as her (not even close) what i am saying is martin loved the part of jon that he was familiar with. someone who didnt like him.
jon started to noticeably fall in love with martin when he was distant from him and ignored him, much like his grandmother. thats how he’s felt love in the past.
thats how they grew up and it skewed their perception of love and relationships. its inherently unhealthy. i think that aspect of their relationship is very overlooked and interesting. i hope you understand what i mean as im not very good at explaining my thoughts 😅
Interesting take but i don’t fully agree. I mean this is obviously what happened with Martin, but Jon? Not really.
In order for this to work out we would first need to see a buildup to Jon and Martin’s relationship, which the canon didn’t provide us with. That’s my main issue - the romance came out of nowhere. We knew about Martin’s crush from almost the very beginning, but not Jon’s.
In season 4 he changed his stance on Martin - from “he’s useless and unqualified” to “we have to trust what hes doing”. That’s a nice beginning, but not really the setting stone for a romance. So my problem is we can’t really say anything about Jon’s perspective on the relationship bc there really wasn’t any journey to it. They didn’t have even one proper interaction to show us their newly developed dynamic. The romance sucks because it’s undercooked and has no real foundation, it just appeared out of thin air. If there were any developments during their period in the safehouse, we didn’t hear them. Also I cannot for the life of me understand that random timeskip there sorry
So maybe you’re right and your perspective is accurate but the canon gives us little more than a few “I love you"s. After a while it just turns to pure speculation. Season 5 should’ve let those gays simmer. Soak up the trauma juices for flavour
Option on doorway/gerrymichael
I’m assumimg you meant ‘opinion’, and I don’t have one. (Also, I think the other name is actually DoorKeay. Door + Key. Cute)
I like Gerry, he’s an interesting and likeable character. But Michael doesn’t even play any major parts in the story. He’s not even there.
He’s been dead since the beginning. We only heard him say one line. We only know that he was kind, and caring, and marked by the Supernatural. Poor, disposable Michael.
The ship between Gerry and Michael is cute and silly, especially since the designs fanon gave them are opposites. It’s aesthetically pleasing. But when it comes to their actual story and dynamic, there is none. You can make up basically anything and it technically could be canon. Very fun if you like writing characters, but I prefer analyzing what’s already there.
I can get behind DoorKeay tho. Gerry as someone raised among the Supernatural, and the Distortion wearing the face of his coworker. I feel like Gerry would have an easier time bonding with the Distortion rather than the og Michael. He would understand it, and it would HAAAATE him for it. Perhaps Gerry could force the Distortion to alter its nature?
But truth be told, I never really cared. I never cared much about any of the ships and that’s why the fandom’s focus on shipping is irritating, esp since they almost always omit the horror part of it all.
LORD HELL ME I SENT THAT ASK DEHYDRATED SLEEP DEPRIVED AT SCHOOL
"doorway" WHAT IS DOORWAY WHAT DID I JUST TYPE HELP ME
That happens lol don’t worry. Hope I understood what you meant
Doorway anon that you figured out the identity of calling myself doorway anon is funny I'm keeping it
WHAT IS GOING ON WITH SOME ELIAS FANS ON AO3?????? I am scared why is he out in the fanfics graping people I'm tireddd
That guy is not a grapist please 💔💔💔
8 year old Jon??? Teenager Gerry??? Teen Gerry??? Teenager Michael????????? Og Elias???? NRO HE WOULD NOT GRAPE ANYONE STOP
Do you ever open ao3 at 3 am and regret your life choices
Oh my god. Soooo many fics do that and it’s HORRENDOUS. Also no need to censor the word “rape”.
It’s a legitimate problem, and it shows that a lot of people don’t even try to understand Elias as a character. They see him as the big evil villain that stands in the way of their favourite gay blorbos.
Because they don’t understand his actions and yet feel the need to paint him as evil, they make him commit disgusting acts of violence to justify their hatred for him (and often, when the fic involves non-con JonElias, they describe Jon as a helpless little boy and Martin as his big strong savior. Treating the podcast as their personal BL webtoon). None of those fics are interested in analyzing Jonah’s character at all.
I think it’s also Jared Hopworth who occasionally gets this treatment. The big bad man standing in the way of your favourite queer couple. Oh, and he’s homophobic too! Can’t forget that one!
This is such a Martin way of thinking. The whole black-and-white perspective. No wonder so many people kin him
i’d love to hear your thoughts on this scene!!! i copied it direct from transcript. i already know how i feel on it, but i’d love to hear yours. the whole slapping thing martin did is icky and gross and im glad jon doesnt brush over it TOO much
MARTIN (cutting in)
“No, no, no; that's enough!”
[A JANGLING AS HE - REACHES OVER?]
MARTIN (CONT'D)
“That's enough.”
[PAUSE.]
[A FEW STEPS.]
[THEN, CLOTHING SOUNDS AS THE ARCHIVIST SPEAKS:]
ARCHIVIST
“Thank you for not hitting me this time.”
[A PAUSE THAT STRETCHES ON FOR THE SPAN OF THREE HEAVY BREATHS.]
Wow, Martin actually took Jon’s feelings into consideration for once? Unbelievable. Should’ve started by not hitting him that first time. It wasn’t that hard! He could’ve just done whatever he did here instead of a slap to the face.
I think “the Jon that’s an avatar” and “the Jon that’s his lover” are two separate beings in Martin’s mind, and so slapping “the monster” didn’t matter as long as he got “his” Jon back.
It’s great that their relationship isn’t “teenage couple” level of toxic, but I still don’t care. I liked the horrors, and so the sudden unexpected appearance of canon romance soured the experience for me.
Idk, but something about early s1 just kinda… eh? Early Jon and Martin interactions are okay at best, and I’m aware Elias wasn’t supposed to come in yet but he could have had a bit more plot. Idk season one is just unsatisfying
It’s a horror fiction podcast you silly! The statement is the main part, and the rest is more like a dessert.
I loved season 1 because it gently drew me in. It wasn’t demanding to listen to because it wasn’t plot-heavy, and you could enjoy each statement as a story on its own. That’s what I like most about the podcast - you can listen to any episode at any time without it feeling taken out of context.
Idk if someone asked you this before but are you listening to The Magnus Protocol? If you are, what are you thinking of it so far? If not, is there a reason for it? (Btw thanks for answering my last question)
I’m so glad you asked that because I have soo much to say.
When TMAGP first came out it was kind of exciting. Everyone in the TMA fandom was hyping it up, so I decided to give it a go. But honestly, I didn’t find it all that amazing; I only made it to ep 28 before losing interest. There are a few things that discouraged me from listening to it further.
My first problem is with the form of it. Each episode is a compilation of different recordings - from a computer, from the cctv, from a phone. It’s original and interesting, but this also made it difficult for me to understand what was being said. I needed to look at the transcript during nearly every episode, because I couldn’t make out what the characters were saying. I’m not that good at processing audio, especially since english isn’t my first language, and the wide variety of form certainly didnt make it easier for ne.
This alone made it pretty annoying, since the main reason I listen to podcasts is to be able to occupy my hands and eyes with something else, like drawing. Having to read the transcript while listening is a bit demanding and requires my full attention, making the whole thing feel like a chore.
I also don’t like the frequent changes of the place and time of action - again, I had a hard time knowing what was going on without following the transcript as I listened.
My other issue is with the statements. In TMA they took the form of a written report, so they all followed the same pattern - they were all told from a first person pov, clearly divided into segments, told at a steady pace allowing tension to build up. TMAGP statements vary in their forms and shapes, once again making it both original and hard for me to follow.
That is not to say I didn’t enjoy them; I liked a lot of them, but there were also some that didnt speak to me at all - they were just not scary in the slightest. I did not have this problem with TMA - even if a statement didn’t resonate with me personally, it still made a great standalone story.
Another one of my issues is that there is so much going on. The episodes focus way more on the plot than in TMA in my opinion. I’m aware this might be because of the smaller number of episodes that TMAGP is going to have in comparison to TMA. But still, I couldn’t really bring myself to care about any of the characters, and, by extension, I don’t care about their stories either. The statements are, and always have been, my favourite part of the podcast(s).
I aslo have a problem with TMAGP being basically “TMA: the sequel”. There are a lot of references to the original podcast, and you need to know all of them in order to actually understand what’s going on, because a loooot of it is left unsaid. In TMA you didn’t have to do all this detective work - while you could technically spend every episode searching for clues, the narrative did a pretty good job of explaining it to a clueless listener (me). You can’t fully enjoy TMAGP without knowing everything about TMA first. Again, that’s demanding.
Another reason for why I’m not very into TMAGP is that I don’t care for JonMartin. Season 5 wrapped it all up nicely. I don’t caaare what they might be doing in other universes. They never mattered much to me. And most TMAGP fans I’ve seen focus mainly on the characters that appeared in TMA: “omg Gertrude and Gerry are happy! Basira is a techer! Jon and Martin did this and that!” I don’t care sorry. I’m here mainly for the horror short stories.
So yeah I’m not really into TMAGP. I tried listening to it, but only ever got so far as episode 28 before getting bored and dropping it.
Your blog has become my favourite since i discovered it so i might start asking too many questions.
Is there a character that you despise almost as much as Martin? Whether because you dislike how the fandom depicts them, or because of their personality, or for no reason at all.
There’s never too many questions. I love answering them ♡
I actually don’t have such a strong opinion on any of the other characters, at least not regarding their canon versions. Truth be told, I never cared much about those people. The statements are my favourite part, although if I had to choose a fave then it would be Jon, simply because of his voice. I love it when he reads the statements.
In regards of the characters, there are a lot of moments that make me feel an all-consuming rage. But they were all done for a reason and in character, so I have nothing to complain about. In order to do that properly, I would have to do an in-depth analysis, and my opinions aren’t strong enough to do that yet.
I do have a problem with a few fanon depictions tho.
One: It’s the fans that made me really dislike Martin. It’s actually kind of interesting in its own way, since the dogshit awful fanon version was so bad that it motivated me to analyze his character, and form my own opinion. In many ways, TMA fandom sucks absolute booty. I can only consume TMA-related content from a few hand-picked blogs or else I will die painfully.
(Also there is a large part of transmasc Martin headcanons that are sooo icky….. A lot of people who do that see him as weak and feminine and so so sweet and that’s just plain weird?? Seeing him as a little fat cutie and also slapping the trans headcanon on him. Feels like you just wanna baby trans men)
Two: I read once that depicting Daisy as a butch is enforcing a quite harmful stereotype of butches being inherently violent. Especially since we’re told that she chose the nickname ‘Daisy’ to appear softer, sweeter.
Three: Fans of Michael Shelley (NOT The Distortion) that swear he’s their favourite character are… odd. I mean, like who you like, it’s alright! But Michael wasn’t even there. His only purpose in the story was to be thrown away - “poor, disposable Michael”. The only things we know about him were told to us by The Distortion - that he had a friend who got consumed by the Spiral, that he wanted to avenge them, and so that’s why he joined the Institute. I get liking him, but placing him as your favourite character?
Most of his fans that I’ve seen only use him as a vessel for shipping. They can slap basically anything on him and it will stick, because he’s nothing more than an empty shell. You can’t even analyze him, because there’s nothing to analyze.
Four: A lot of the widely accepted fanon designs are plain unrealistic. And I don’t mean unrealistic as fantasy, I mean that their appearance doesn’t fit with the setting of the story at all. Those are all adults in their early thirties if I’m correct, working in a semi-professional, academic environment. They wouldn’t wear frilly skirts, or maximalist outfits with a hundred accessories, or several pride pins.
I get that it’s fun to dress up your fave like a doll, but please. Slapping fifty headcanons on a boring office worker makes you lose the essence of the character in the process, and they just become an oc in the end. Not to mention that too many headcanons erase the character’s personality entirely. A character’s personality and certain habits are reflected in the way they would dress.
Another thing regarding the designs is that people get soooo pressed when someone’s design of the character doesn’t match the widely accepted fanon. I know, I just spent over a paragraph criticizing designs as well, but in reality it’s not that serious. I don’t care nearly as much as you may think I do. But when someone makes Jon white, or, worse, Martin skinny - people are gonna go “uhhmmm…. that’s not MY blorbo….. what did you do to him……” and it’s so weird! This is a podcast character! We only got a few vague lines about their physical description! You can draw them however you like and it might as well have been canon! You never know!
I love talking. @neurodiev1rgin never stop sending me asks. They actually help me get my thoughts and opinions in order
Hehe me again 👉👈
What do you think was Jonny's reason to make Jon and Martin end up together? I, for the longest time, just accepted that it was just fanservice. We've known about Martin's crush since season three, and Jmart was popular, so he rewarded people that were hoping for it to be canon, but I don't really like that hypothesis; it kind of feels too much like a "the curtains are just blue" way of thinking.
I tried putting something together; maybe Jmart was meant to be a parallel of Daisy and Basira, with Basira loving (platonically or not) Daisy when she's at her most monstrous, and Martin hating Jon for it, but idk if it really makes sense because Martin likes the idea of killing people as long as HE sees fit.
I'm not MatPat, i'm really bad at theorising so i would like to see your perspective on this.
For me, it still feels like the first reason is true: the fans liked the characters, and so the writers just smooshed them together. I mentioned previously that Jon and Martin’s jump to romance feels rushed to me. The build-up they got felt like it would lead to a friendship at most.
The paralell to Daisy and Basira is interesting. Basira liked Daisy at her most monstrous. Martin liked Jon at his most human.
Except Basira admits that later on. The nature of her relationship with Daisy is outlined and highlited, and more visible to the viewer. The narrative never does that with Jon and Martin: it’s just made to be that whole “you are my reason” thing.
The canon provided us with an interesting dynamic and then did nothing to explore it, or at least explain it, resulting in a lot of fans seeing them as cutesy and lovey-dovey.
It also explains Martin’s reasoning in the last episodes on s5. He didn’t want for Jon to become a monster, not out of sympathy, but because he doesn’t like Jon monstrous and tied to the Eye. He is repulsed by Avatar-Jon. This also adds to the nuance of their relationship, considering that being an avatar is, at that time, a very large part of Jon’s very being. He can’t get rid of it without ripping out parts of himself. The version of Jon that Martin loves doesn’t exist anymore. Maybe it never existed at all.
MARTIN
[Petulantly] Of course it is. Of course it is! Because how could this journey possibly end with anything less than the final, supreme destiny of the Archivist, plugged into the great fear machine for all eternity and, and abandoning humanity.
Breaking his promise. (MAG 194)
MARTIN
Because she said if I did, she’d leave without me. And then… well… we’d have had to stick with crappy Plan A, and you’d… you’d end up gone. (MAG 198)
GEORGIE
Spread the fears to other realities.
Option two is John takes over from Magnus. Keeps the Powers contained here with us, and tries his best to make the place a little more… tolerable, until the end.
MARTIN
And we lose him. (MAG 199)
I still think the romance was unnecessary. All of this could’ve been done without these two kissing, and maybe that would’ve made the fans stop obsessing over the ship just beause it’s canon and actually focus on the horror part every once in a while.
Do you have any other podcasts that you enjoy and recommend? And if you do, do you plan to talk about them? Whether on this blog or another one? You mentioned a few times you listen to TMA for the statements, so I assumed you liked Welcome to Night Vale as well.
I actually haven’t listened to that many podcasts overall. The Magnus Archives is the only podcast I managed to finish so far.
I tried listening to Welcome to Night Vale a year ago I think. I liked it a lot! Can’t remember why I stopped. Lack of proper time probably. I prefer listening to podcasts a few episodes at a time, since I tend to forget things when I take breaks, and end up having to relisten to the whole ep anyway.
There are some podcasts that I want to check out - like Hello From The Hallowoods, The Penumbra Podcast, Camp Here and There etc. I don’t plan on listening to them anytime soon tho
Idk you or another person already talked about this, but one of the biggest reason as to why i can't understand HOW people think Jmart are a perfect couple is this
Mag 172
He literally slapped him just because he didn't want to wait? Why did everyone just forget about this? I don't remember if Jon by S5 still feels pain, but even if he didn’t, there is no reason to do that; he could just shake him or call him instead; Martin wasn't in a desperate situation where he needed Jon to wake up fast, he just did it.
Mag 173
He thanks Martin for not hitting him? Wtf. He did only slap Jon for no reason this one time, but i'm pretty sure hitting your lover more than zero times is not normal
Their relationship definitely isn’t all sunshine and rainbows like the fandom likes to paint it. And it pisses me off!! “You were starting another and I didn’t want to wait” to where are you rushing in the place where time doesn’t function anymore? You’re gonna be surrounded by horror in a few minutes anyway.
It could’ve been good if presented correctly, but all jonmartin content/fanart I see says something like “the slowest slow burn ever aww” “the Antichrist with his boyfriend!” “They’re looking at cows!” “Martin fell first Jon fell harder” and ugh. It could’ve been bearable. Fine, even. But it’s all that there is. There is NO terrible broken incompatible jmart (beyond the “ouuugh you made me stab youu, how could you do that??” thing AND EVEN THAT makes Jon seem like he’s the only one at fault).
Because of this a lot of people decide to get into TMA with the fluffy fanon version of jmart already in their minds, and when they get to season 5, they aren’t prepared to look past the “apocalyptic gays” version which they’ve internalized. Some of them even go so far as to skip the statements in favor of dialogue, because they’re boring.
Everyone collectively missed all the nuance in favor of a bland gay pairing that doesn’t even work like that in canon. Please engage with the source material beyond looking at what you want to see. There’s media with queer representation that doesn’t involve horror! You don’t have to specifically get into a horror fiction podcast just to ignore the horror part and listen to gay men talk!
be more evil.
How? Do you want me to torture Martin in increasingly cartoonish ways? Throw rotten tomatoes at his fans? What are my options here. Help me out boss you’re the experienced one
Coming from the doorway anon here I haven't checked Tumblr in a while absolutely in love with this blog/p
Also as a Michael Shelley lover I think the only reason he's up there is because he is an empty shell
We don't get that much of him and they either like him because since he is in an empty shell we don't get to see almost none of his flaws other than being naive and people like projecting it gives them stuff to work with not in an "stuff to analyse Michael Shelley" kind of way but just to make stuff up and whatever they slap onto him cannot be mischacterisation because there is not much of him to be mischaracterised
Also I never realised why I desliked Martin in a way until I found this blog
"SO THAT'S WHY I FEEL LIKE THAT ABOUT HIM"
Also Michael being naive and disposable.....the fandom is full of traumatized people
I wish Jon was aromantic too oh my god
I couldn't realise WHY I hated Martin so much because whenever I opened tumblr everyone made him seem like such a sweetheart
Writing this at school with not much sleep and dehydrated ignore any spelling mistakes
Please never ever stop posting
Also I think the fandom is starting to make me slightly annoyed at Michael Shelley because he's so babied too? Maybe
also confused on where muslim basira came from I am relistening and wondering if I zoned out on an episode (I probably did)
I MISS SO MANY STUFF OH MY GODD
About Michael - yeah, that is basically what makes him fun! While technically you are free to do as you please in regards of the designs, with him you can also do whatever you want with his personality. He’s a bit like a free space in the story, and you can squeeze whoever you’d like in there.
I’m glad i helped give words to your feelings regarding Martin. That’s why diversity in fandom is needed, not everyone will enjoy a piece of media in the same way. You need different perspectives in order to put together your own. Not to mention that it always feels nice to find someone who shares your opinion.
The babying is a big problem in this fandom. Notice how its always male characters getting this treatment? They’re always helpless cute babies. And the women aren’t even hated, they’re just never talked about.
And muslim Basira? I think it’s just the fandom hearing a vaguely eastern name and deciding to run with a stereotype. A hijab is a garment tied to religious faith, and there is nothing said about Basira’s beliefs or relationship with religion in the show.
