The Eye being fond of Martin is really strange because it implies the Watcher has Jon’s wellbeing in mind.
This kind of reasoning contradicts everything we were told about the Fears before that. If Martin hadn’t been with him, wouldn’t Jon have given in to his urges more and therefore been more useful to the Eye? Why would a man that constantly bashes Jon’s avatarhood be in any way worthy of appreciation of an eldritch being that feeds on the very fear Jon extracts? This just doesn’t make sense.
This bit feels like it was tossed in to patch up the whole “the Fears won’t hurt you as long as you’re with me” thing. It’s just there to make the ship seem cute bc “the Eye approves of it! The Eye is a JMart shipper haha!”
The whole “ceaseless watcher’s special little boy” thing that people love so much misses the whole point the podcast made. It seems cute but the fans make it seem as the only reason Jon became an avatar - because the Eye liked him. And that takes away the tragism of his character. The fact that he did absolutely choose this path, even if it was unknowingly. The fact he would’ve always ended up as the Archivist because of the way he is.
Very few people realize how tragic post s5 jmart would actually be. Provided they really end up Somewhere Else, Jon possibly would’ve been freed from the Eye. He would be without the thing that made him the person he knew himself as. Having to find himself again. Not even knowing if he has the strength to do so.
Imagine how Martin would’ve reacted to that. At first he would be happy with it - after all, it’s the Beholding-less version of Jon that he grew attached to. But after some time he would realize how little of that Jon is actually left. How much of Jon’s very being was intertwined with the Eye, and is now lost forever. A part of your beloved is dead and you will never get it back, not as you had known him.
Still, that helpless Jon would be Martin’s favourite Jon. He could finally dedicate his time to taking care of him, just like he always wanted. His perfect little scenario of them living a domestic life could finally be realized.
The thing is, Jon doesn’t like being weak and helpless. He had always taken care of himself, and he can do it just fine. It’s mental support that he needs. Those “monsters” may be gone, but the Fears, their statements, the suffering - they all linger in his mind still.
But Martin has already left those events behind. He doesn’t want to go back to them, because why would you want to relive those awful moments? You’re fine now! Here, I’ll make you some tea. It will make you feel better. Just try to sit down and relax.
People saying Elias was the sole cause of Jon’s suffering don’t get it. The whole tragedy of it all is that Jon would’ve gotten harmed by the powers whether he was the Archivist or not. The only difference is he wouldn’t have survived it.
Half the fanart depicting Martin makes him look like a prepubescent boy. Pleeease that man is in his thirties!! You don’t need to baby him just because you think he’s fat and cute!!
Idea: Jon and Martin have eachother but they’re still lonely -> Martin’s Lonely aspect is showing -> Martin WANTS to be alone and he also wants Jon to stay with him -> Martin purposely isolates Jon from everyone else so that Jon has to stay with him, can only stay with him.
Martin’s Lonely aspect should’ve been highlited more in season 5 instead of just being a vessel/medium for his angst. He should’ve been shown as more monstrous pleeeease. His relationship with Jon should’ve been portrayed as more supernaturally unhealthy. Hurting people is not always physical, and you’re not always aware that you’re being hurt. The Lonely would’ve been so cool if it were also shown as a weapon, as something that can hurt you just as much as the Eye’s compulsion. Not just as a tool for Martin’s character development. The harmful isolation motif should’ve been maintained in season 5 as well instead of being discarded for the sake of the human-monster dynamic.
Every day I mourn monstrous Martin. They could’ve been so much better auuugh…. AND it could’ve made Martin drop the weird superiority thing he has over Jon in s5. That or he would become the ultimate hypocrite (tasty)
@flamingphoenix916 I had SO MUCH to say about jmart that I had to do it in a separate post. This way I can also include screenshots from the unofficial transcripts.
First of all, Jon and Martin aren’t really compatible. They don’t even know eachother outside of the Archive. Martin’s stuck on his “precious image of Jon”, as Elias stated, and Jon is way too busy Seeing everything to focus on improving their relationship.
Martin frequently cuts Jon off when he’s talking about the Fears, because he’s uncomfortable hearing it. He outright refuses to be of any help in regards to Jon’s new feeding habits - understandable, logical even, but not even attempting to help doesn’t make him a very good partner. Martin will actively isolate himself from everything that upsets him, and so I wouldn’t say it’s a good thing for him to be with a guy who’s essentially the filter for all the world’s fear and suffering. Jon’s like the liver of the Fear-infested world.
He fails to empathize with Jon on several occasions. When Jon refuses to kill Simon Fairchild (or was it Oliver Banks?) he tries to give an explanation for it, but Martin once again cuts him off and expresses annoyance, because “well they’re monsters! They deserve to die!”
This is because Martin thinks in black and white. He always looks for the simplest explanation, and gets upset when such a thing isn’t available. His morals shift to accomodate that. “The Avatars hurt people for their Patrons, so they’re Bad and deserve to die. When I revenge myself upon those monsters, it’s Good and Correct.”
He also has trouble accepting Jon as an avatar. He’s disgusted, or at least inconvenienced by Jon’s new needs and behaviours, and separates Jon into two categories: the Human Jon whom he fell in love with, and the Monster Jon who’s compelled by the Powers to hurt people.
He laughs at Jon when he’s vulnerable while they’re at Salesa’s. He slaps Jon in MAG 172 becase he didn’t feel like waiting for the man to finish his second statement. Also, I’m not a fan of the “human-monster” divide between the two of them. Martin should’ve become a full-fledged avatar instead of just toeing the line.
Here are some things i said about them in my previous posts:
“ There is no real build-up to them getting together. It’s just… one moment they’re in the Lonely, desperate to find one another, and a moment later they’re saying "I love you” and kissing eachother. When did that happen? I get the whole “grasping at eachother for balance” thing, but was there really a need to make them a couple so soon?
The build-up felt more like it would lead to a friendship, not outright romance - which is why their relationship felt so surface-level in the following season. The writers put together two people that only knew eachother as coworkers, and tossed them into the apocalypse right after that. Jon and Martin do love eachother, but they don’t know eachother besides their surface-level bickering. This relationship could’ve been salvaged in any other circumstances except the goddamn apocalypse, where both of them are constantly on edge. They can’t really sit down and talk about their feelings, when the primary feeling they’re experiencing is fear.
What I’m saying is jmart feels… kinda undercooked? It could’ve had a nice dynamic if it got actually developed. They’re just two friendly delusional coworkers. “
” I mainly have a problem not with the ship itself as the canon presents it, but with the fanon characterization - veeery often they’re watered down to “big fluffy protective boyfiend” and “dangerous but soft monster”. It’s bland, it’s shallow, and worst of all it is completely out of character. And since jmart takes up a large part of canon (they had an entire season!) and is most people’s favourite part of the podcast (back then they used to binge it just to get to season 5), there’s a TON of content of them and nearly ALL of it is blatant mischaracterization. But there’s nothing to be done about that. “
Honestly, if not for the widespread fanon version, maybe I could even be a fan of this ship! But the canon doesnt really give us much, and the fanon is absolutely attrocious.
Martin fans who acknowledge that he kinda sucks are my greatest friends and allies. You and I, we’re in this together. Hold my hand
There are many reasons as to why jmart is a mediocre ship at best. One of them is that for the entirety of season 5 Jon and Martin were written to be a couple. Not two people, pushed together by their awful circumstances, but as one entity. It made me feel like a lot of their depth as individuals was pushed aside, in order to label them as romantic partners.
Every single thing they did was seemingly motivated by “their love for eachother”, or at least that is the popularized fanon version worming its way into the source material. The Archivist and the Archivist’s Plus One. “Who’s that? Your boyfriend?” “Yes, actually.” This is the main thing the narrative gives us. Everything circles around the fact that they are boyfriends. They are robbed of their individuality. Even the brief moments they got on their own only served as angst material for their relationship.
If you want depth, you need to be looking at every single minor detail and dig it out, or, even better, just imagine it yourself! (The safehouse period that everyone loves sooo much). And even then, even if you manage to find something, it gets crushed and warped and shoved aside by the fandom. The source material is just not as popular as the collectively imagined version.
I can’t get over the fact that TMA gave us the concept of the Extinction just to throw it away before it got a chance of having any impact on the story.
It could’ve been so good. Especially in season 5. You mean to tell me that the Fear of an apocalyptic world wasn’t utilized in an apocalyptic world setting?
Odd. All we got was Martin with his whole self-sacrifice and self-hatred gig. It was okay. But sort of underwhelming, compared to what could’ve been.
(Actually so annoying that a whole Fear is irreversibly tied to a character that didn’t even serve it.)
