March 2025

Sometimes I mourn for the version of season 5 I thought I was going to hear. I loved the whole plotline of Jon trying to save Martin from the lonely. Because Jon felt responsible for him, and Martin was the only one of Jon's assistants left. and I was convinced I was going to see Jon realising that he actually didn't like Martin.

Because like. throughout the podcast Jon is continually choosing to try to get power and information in order to protect the people around him. He's willing to sacrifice his friendships, his safety, his humanity, because he cares, even for people who have tried to kill him. He tries to kill Not Sasha, someone he remembers being friends with, in order to protect the others. And then Martin gets offered the chance to kill Jonah Magnus and free all the employees and he turns it down because he's a person! and he wants to have friends!

and they're just so incompatible and I thought we'd get to see Jon wondering if it was worth it to save Martin, and all this delicious stuff. and the creators said they wouldn't make the relationship canon!

and then we got season 5 instead.

any thoughts?

Yeah. You covered basically everything I’ve been criticizing. Literally every single tma critical post I’ve made circles around these topics. (Under the cut bc I just learned how to make those)

Season 4 felt like a build-up to something huge. We got nearly all of the cast hating Jon for something completely out of his control. We got Martin trying to pull off a self-sacrifice. We got introduced to the Extinction, told that it was a terrible danger to everyone and that it had to be stopped. A lot of things were happening at once, and there was a looot of tension between the characters.

Then comes time for the big reveal, and it really was big. We found out what happened to Jonah Magnus and the real reason why the Institute was built. Martin also got to show that he’s not as weak and helpless as everyone thought.

Jon’s desperate attempt to pull Martin out of the Lonely was little more than that. By that point, Martin was literally the only person that didn’t outright despise Jon for becoming an Avatar, and that might be simply because he and Martin didn’t even talk once. Another reason for Jon’s lack of hesitation might be that he realized the crush Martin used to have on him, and so saving the man might’ve given him the hope of finding someone who’d treat him like a person, not a monster. All in all, it had less to do with romantic feelings, and more with desperation and the difficult situation Jon had found himself in.

There is no real build-up to them getting together. It’s just… one moment they’re in the Lonely, desperate to find one another, and a moment later they’re saying “I love you” and kissing eachother. When did that happen? And don’t say “well it was during the time they spent in the safehouse together!” Then why are they so painfully incompatible throughout season 5? Seriously, I get the whole “grasping at eachother for balance” thing, but was there really a need to make them a couple so soon? The build-up felt more like it would lead to a friendship, not outright romance - which is why their relationship felt so surface-level in the following season.

I completely missed the transition to the Safehouse on my first listen, and honestly I’m still not sure how it all happened. Jon and Martin’s conversations there seem light and at ease, but they have no real basis for a meaningful bond.

And yeah, there’s the issue with their contributions to their relationship being unequal. Jon is bending over backwards trying to accommodate Martin, leaving when he feels the need to make a statement, trying to explain everything as best as he can while carrying the weight of the world’s suffering on his shoulders. He’s not perfect, but it’s more than enough considering the situation they’re in.

But Martin? He’s selfish in his behaviour, even if it’s not outright visible. He refuses to listen to Jon talking about the fearscape because it makes him uncomfortable. He doesn’t try to look at the situation from Jon’s point of view - admittedly, that would’ve been very difficult, but he could’ve at least tried to show some support. He’s repulsed by Jon’s new needs, and, when they’re at Salesa’s, he laughs at Jon when he’s stripped of the Eye’s power. All of those behaviours are understandable of course, but it makes their relationship that ordinary kind of unhealthy; even tho they have their moments, ultimately they’re just two people staying together despite not getting on very well. It was spelled out for them by Peter Lukas:

(I’ve lost count of how many times I used this screenshot)

Peter was trying to upset Jon here of course. But that doesn’t change the fact it’s true. They just don’t have a basis for a meaningful relationship, because they barely even spoke. And yet they’re the focus of an entire season.

Yeah, yeah, it’s because of their circumstances, sure. But nearly every single fan looks at their relationship through rose-colored glasses. Better yet, I’ve seen people describe TMA as a “gay horror podcast” just because of jmart. And it’s infuriating, because their relationship gives us nothing. These two men talked for the first time in what? Months? And the writers decided “yeah we’ll make them boyfriends! This will be a hit with the gay fans for sure!” and then they wrote the blandest possible relationship they could’ve. It’s like your parents who constantly bicker yet don’t want to get a divorce. Just two coworkers in an apocalyptic world, and suddenly it’s “gay horror”.

Also they’re so obviously unhealthy, and yet the narrative just… ignores it. There aren’t any real consequences to their lack of compability, which is weird!! Really? No consequences? In MY inevitable consequences of your actions podcast?

Let’s talk abot Martin, because of course it all comes back to him. My main issue with the man is that he thinks in black and white. When the Avatars kill people it’s for their Patrons and out of their twisted desire, and so they’re bad and evil. When he kills people(through Jon), then it’s taking revenge on those monsters that hurt him, so it’s right, and it’s good. When Martin first witnessed Jon’s new “powers”, it’s him who came up with the idea of using it for revenge. And as long as it’s his initiative and Jon is only doing it for him, then it’s good and morally correct. But when he noticed Jon started to enjoy the killing, then suddenly it’s “wrong” and “not okay”, because “you weren’t supposed to enjoy it this much!” (Please be for real.) His perception of “right” and “wrong” is whatever is most convenient for him at that moment.

My other issue with Martin is that the Lonely barely even affected him. It was more like “heavy depression but make it Supernatural”. Season 4 started sculpting him into an interesting character, someone who’s ready to sacrifice himself yet cannot stand the thought of his friends getting hurt in the process. His whole Lonely arc gave him depth. He was focused. He had a plan. He made a decision and was ready to pull through with it.

But then he gets thrown into the Forsaken by Peter, and by the time Jon pulls him out, he’s exactly where he started. The same insufferable brand of nervousness and indecision and lack of understanding. Turned back into the nerd emoji. Like… the whole “Martin being an avatar of the Lonely” thing could serve as an explanation to the shallow nature of their relationship - it could be the Lonely pulling them further apart! Or Martin realizing he lost feelings for Jon and quietly distancing himself from the man! Delicious inescapable tragedy!

So yeah. There’s not a word said about their shitty bond, and it’s the main focus of the last season. Boring boring boring!!! The wonderful opportunity to make them both monstrous was MISSED!!! Of cooourse Martin is unaffected by the Lonely, it’s because he’s with Jon! Martin helps Jon regain his humanity! The Eye approves of their relationship!! Also the whole “you are my reason” part was, like, the easiest way to make Jon not suicidal, for which he had all the reasons imaginable. That man hated himself for being a monster, and everyone else hated him too!! But noo he’s with Martin now! The power of love cured him of depression! But not Martin tho, he deserves to wallow in his suffering, even though Jon had it just as bad if not worse. They had to divide them into “the one who’s a monster and losing himself” and “the one responsible for keeping the monster at a leash”. I apologize for the odd wording, i don’t know how else to phrase it.

Perfect opportunity to make fucked up monstrous tragic gays, and we got toxic teenage couple instead. The whole apocalyptic setting was TERRIFYINGLY UNDERUTILIZED!!!!! Also the s5 plot felt like they were just. Dragging the whole thing. The finale was cool, moral dilemma and all, but everything before that? Unremarkable. Questionable, even. I only liked the statements. (But tbh I mainly only like the statements.)

hello !! id say im a jonmartin fan (not my top jon ship tho lmao…jongerry forever) but i like them best with their nuances and not the blorboified version of them. so i have something to offer.

jon and martin fall in love with each other much in the same way they know to receive/take love from their family members.

martin’s mother was shown to be callous and verbally mean to him. im not saying jon is as bad as her (not even close) what i am saying is martin loved the part of jon that he was familiar with. someone who didnt like him.

jon started to noticeably fall in love with martin when he was distant from him and ignored him, much like his grandmother. thats how he’s felt love in the past.

thats how they grew up and it skewed their perception of love and relationships. its inherently unhealthy. i think that aspect of their relationship is very overlooked and interesting. i hope you understand what i mean as im not very good at explaining my thoughts 😅

Interesting take but i don’t fully agree. I mean this is obviously what happened with Martin, but Jon? Not really.

In order for this to work out we would first need to see a buildup to Jon and Martin’s relationship, which the canon didn’t provide us with. That’s my main issue - the romance came out of nowhere. We knew about Martin’s crush from almost the very beginning, but not Jon’s.

In season 4 he changed his stance on Martin - from “he’s useless and unqualified” to “we have to trust what hes doing”. That’s a nice beginning, but not really the setting stone for a romance. So my problem is we can’t really say anything about Jon’s perspective on the relationship bc there really wasn’t any journey to it. They didn’t have even one proper interaction to show us their newly developed dynamic. The romance sucks because it’s undercooked and has no real foundation, it just appeared out of thin air. If there were any developments during their period in the safehouse, we didn’t hear them. Also I cannot for the life of me understand that random timeskip there sorry

So maybe you’re right and your perspective is accurate but the canon gives us little more than a few “I love you"s. After a while it just turns to pure speculation. Season 5 should’ve let those gays simmer. Soak up the trauma juices for flavour