im still stuck on the very beginning episodes of season 3 because the fact that im going to have to hear MARTIN reading the statements and not Jon kinda turned me off (i think martin reads them? its been a month or two since i last listened to tma)
Martin has the gall to paint himself as the victim in s5 when its Jon that got kidnapped, beaten, abused, burned, and assaulted both physically and mentally multiple times throughout the show.
Meanwile he just got depressed and had to work a desk job for a while. Peter Lukas didn't even do that much to him, he isolated himself because of his own decision. That man's hypocrisy has no bounds
you’re kinda so right and i think ill love you forever. like im sorry you had to isolate yourself a little and work an overpaid kinda easy job but like?? id do that too it sounds kinda great sign me up man please please
I’ve just realized what bugs me the most when I’m comparing canon and fanon Martin. It’s the fact that in canon he never really changed.
I’ve said this before, but right now it really hit me. The Martin we see in early seasons is exactly the same Martin we see in season 5. He had always been like this.
I feel like the reason people talk about his “change” in season 5 is because up to that moment we’ve mainly heard Martin interacting with Jon, the man he had a crush on. Of course he’s gonna be stuttering and awkward! But when talking with Tim for example, Martin is his usual self - unless Jon is mentioned, of course.
Also there was this whole thing with the Lonely, where he got depressed and isolated himself from everyone. But for some reason it wasn’t a catalyst for his character development - when he got out of it, when he got out of the Lonely, he stayed the same as before. He just gained some self-awareness.
Season 5 Martin acts this way because at that point he has an idea of what’s happening and isn’t so anxious about his surroundings anymore, and, like every person that’s not being absolutely crushed by guilt at that time (Jon), his main objective is to get revenge for all the suffering he had to go through. Every other person from the archive crew would’ve done the same if they were in his position.
And there’s also the matter of him falling out of love with Jon / starting to see him more as a weapon, a monster, or just “his boyfriend” rather than a person.
Oh my god i just saw the ask you sent to mister hater and
WHAT? WHAT? WHAT?
This is crazy. Absolutely crazy. Martin said word-for-word "Let's go full Kill Bill! You know, get our murder on!" And then he just straight up backtracked his apology?? How in the world did I miss it?
Obviously Jon said that to him because he feels guilty. Hell, he felt guilty about the whole smiting thing from the start. He didn't realize he could kill avatars, he didn't mean to do it. He just wanted to hurt the NotThem because it hurt him. He was ashamed of it after it was done.
And then Martin encouraged him to do it, and straight up pointed at the avatars he wanted dead and got mad when Jon wasn't okay with killing people. As long as Martin felt good with it, the killing was a good and morally correct thing, but then he got a bit upset and bam! All Jon's fault!No, Jon, you can't expect me to make a decision whether or not to kill Jude Perry, because I don't hold any personal grudges against her and it's your hand that got burnt, so it's your choice to make. By the way, can you kill Simon Fairchild for me? He threatened to throw me off a rollercoaster once.
Jon can't control his monstrous urges obviously, and he needs to be put in his place before he starts killing people like the other Big Evil Monsters, because he's one of them!
I want someone to hurt Martin for real. Maybe then he would gain an ounce of sympathy for his boyfriend whom he supposedly loves. This is wilddd I'm so mad rn
one HUGE theme that I have found consistent in martin’s character throughout s5 so far is that he’s selfish, and loves not being held accountable for his actions. He uses jon like a tool to deal with his own personal grudges and is constantly egging him on and supporting him in a choice that wasn’t even his own, but when jon wants to smite someone for his OWN reasons, it’s suddenly “oh, you’re pushing this onto me! I can’t make this choice for you! making me choose is unfair!” despite his weird need to be up to date with and in constant control of all of jon’s choices.
^^ I mentioned this scene in my rant and I think it’s one of the first times we are shown outright how involved martin thinks he deserves to be in his boyfriend’s decisions and inner turmoil (also mentioned this before, but this toxic level of involvement that he seeks is so reminiscent of a mistrustful and paranoid gf looking through your phone and checking all your messages and history - the fact that he’s canonically super prone to jealousy is NOT helping this)
he feels the need and right to have a say in everything jon does, but as soon as Jon asks for his input or help with a decision he has to make, “that’s not fair”.
also yes, martin sees only in black and white; which is not ideal when your boyfriend happens to have triggered the apocalypse and is very much morally grey (against his best wishes). He keeps mentioning that all avatars are inherently Bad and deserve to die, not even once considering how Jon might internalize this in regards to his own self-image, or stopping to ask himself whether that’s really the case, or if his own over-simplification of the world he finds himself in is an attempt to cope with the fact that no, “good” and “bad” don’t exist anymore, and trying to force different concepts into those boxes will only result in a warped and inaccurate interpretation of your world.
but yes it’s wild I actually hate him sm idk how people can ship them in s5 they’re so obviously toxic and not good for eachother? how are you looking past that?
And the thing is jon can’t even acknowledge or process this properly because he is relying on martin so heavily, to be his anchor, to be his reason; he’s stuck in a constant spiral of guilt and blaming himself for everything so he doesn’t think he deserves anything, really, so martin tolerating him and wanting to be near him more than he is repulsed by him is such a relief. I’m so pissed about this. Jon deserves so much better
just finished my second relisten to tma and actually why is martin such a fucking bitch fr 😭 bro stands around doing nish for 3 seasons with a cup of tea then spends a season following peter like a fucking dumbass being a bitch to anyone thats not jon the whole damn show like godamn 😭 then hes walking the fucking apocalypse like 'jon fuck ur morals u should kill avatars thier monsters never mind that we are both avatars also im going to slap u and hold u accountable for starting the apocalypse so its ur job to fix it not like u were manipulated' 😭 liek damn bitch fuck off actually
yknow what someone had to say it good for you i lowkey love you for this. i do always appreciate when there are people who hate martin more intensely than me it really makes me feel vindicated and less radical
I’m still not over how Martin being jealous of Oliver is portrayed as a sexy and romantic thing.
Like I get wanting to kill the man who had a thing going on with your boyfriend. That could be seen as sexy. But ordering your boyfriend to kill that man? Just telling him to kill someone because YOU’RE jealous? Now that’s just weird.
It’s like those controlling boyfriends who forbid their girlfriend from having male friends because they’re jealous. Baby if this really was about your attaction to your boyfriend and not about you viewing him as your possession then you would’ve taken matters into your own hands and challenged that other man to a duel
He was clumsy and shy, and bad at his job, but he was also caring and kind, in a very simple way. His acts of kindness were plain but sweet in their simplicity, and his demeanor seemed almost childish. I can see how that could make him endearing.
He was quite an uncomplicated character: all that we knew of him was that he’s clumsy, a bit squeamish, fond of insects and other small creatures, and that he wrote bad poetry. A perfect fit into the softie character archetype. You could find him cute, and develop an attachment to him - it was easy since he had no real flaws. But he didn’t have anything unique about him either.
That in itself is not necessarily a bad thing. Characters like him have potential to develop into someone interesting and complex. They have a lot of room to grow and change. But Martin’s biggest problem as a character is that he did not change.
The shift in his attitude in s4 was only temporary. He decided that isolating himself from everyone was the correct thing to do, so he did it. For a brief amount of time he became more quiet, started actively avoiding people, and began to work alone. But that was out of his own decision. Nothing in his point of view or values had to shift for him to take this course of action.
And that was a great moment to actually develop his character. That isolation, the decision to voluntatily sacrifice himself for others without even informing them of the situation - it could’ve made him stop and think. It could’ve made him take a moment to reflect on himself and his actions. It could’ve prompted him to realize that things weren’t so conveniently black-and-white as he had always believed them to be. That could’ve been the moment he altered his point of view. But it wasn’t.
You know what did happen? He got depressed. That’s it. He opened up to the audience about how much he’s scared of being forgotten, how much he cared about his mother and how she pushed him away, how out of place he felt everywhere he went. All of that makes the listener sympathize with him and feel bad for him, of course. But those are all issues he struggled with in the past as well. It’s nothing new.
And when he got out of the Lonely, when he more or less managed to pull himself together, he was exactly the same man as before. He might’ve seemed different to the listener, because only then did we learn about his self-esteem issues and his motivations. But his attitude did not change.
He remained the same, simple man we got to know him as. He still divided the world into “good” and “bad” categories, despite being shown on multiple occasions that the world doesn’t work like that. He’s in full-blown denial about being an avatar himself, because then he would have to either put himself next to the people he considers evil, or actually discard his childish point of view.
Because of that oversimplified way of reasoning, he ends up belittling and demeaning his boyfriend, even though he too went through something similar and ended up in a nearly identical position to Jon. Both of them have new needs connected to being an avatar, Jon’s are just more prominent. While Jon needed to extract fear and then speak it out loud, Martin felt the need to isolate himself. Because of that, he was also unknowingly isolating Jon, since he was the only person the man could talk to without being told nearly point-blank that he doesn’t deserve to live.
It’s like the writers were too afraid to properly develop him. After all, it was the sweet, plain Martin whom everyone fell in love with, and so even the slightest change to that beloved sweet cinnamon roll who can do no wrong would’ve caused riots! So they decided to half-heartedly entertain the previously discarded idea of Martin being Web-aligned. “Oh look, the guy whom everyone thought is an innocent pure-hearted sweetie is actually a great manipulator! Anabelle thinks he would be soooo good for her patron, she’s so smug about it!”
I think it was supposed to be him finally standing up for himself. “Look, your poor tormented sweetie is finally getting his revenge for all the mistreatment he had to endure! But he’s still fearful and insecure of course :) it’s your favourite guy beating up the people who were mean to him!” And he didn’t even do the beating himself, he just made Jon do it without much concern for the man’s feelings.
I understand that standing up for yourself is important, especially for shy and insecure people, but there’s a difference between defending your autonomy as a person and just being needlessly rude. I’m sorry, but I don’t think getting mad at your boyfriend for things he repeatedly told you were out of his control counts as “taking your own feelings into account for once”. Martin’s perspective doesn’t really extend past his own needs, and by season 5 it’s no longer cute. It’s just exhausting to listen to.
There’s this misconception that in s5 Martin was bloodthirsty and wanted to kill. No, he didn’t. He just wanted these people dead. He didn’t want to do the killing himself. He used Jon to kill for him, so that he wouldn’t have to feel guilty about it. And I’m sure that if he was the one with the power to kill, he wouldn’t have been as eager to abuse it. Because then he would have to take responsibility for his own actions for once.
I got into TMA backwards. It's the first podcast I ever listenedto, but it seemed daunting at first. MAG200 had just released & tumblr was up in arms about it... I heard the ending of MAG200 first before knowing anything else about it. I wanted to get into it, but 200 episodes seemed like a hell of a commitment at the time.
So what did past me do but read fanfiction first to get an idea of the content. HDJDHDHD
It did not prepare me for how far fans of Martin have to stretch to really make him kind & compassionate... because the guy is a prick in the podcast. Like did we listen to the same thing ? fanon Martin is lovely, I wish there was a trace of him in the actual show lmao...
I hate, hate, hate him in season 5. My main gripe is that we had NO time between jmart in season 4 & then suddenly they're thrust into this relationship... where it is so apparent they know nothing about each other.
Martin has never been able to tell when Jon is making a joke, even before season 5... which makes the fact that he still Can't even worse. They don't really banter, it's more them arguing about Jon's decisions... his hypocrisy also drives me up the wall.
It's so clear he doesn't trust Jon at all !! & not only that, he wields him like a gun.. but also has the audacity to say he can't "be that for him" in terms of Jon & the statements...
like sorry Martin.. maybe you'd know about his new needs if you actually bothered to be around him in Season 4. Getting to know what's happening to him instead of isolating yourself for his "protection."
And the... hgghhghh... what do you mean "I take back my apology"? fuck youuu. goddd.
you know how Jude is like. "You've finally got a sniff of power & now you want to settle some old scores." i feel that is true for both of them, but the only means Martin has of that is Jon. it feels so much like he's only using him for his benefit/protection instead of being a loving partner. & it isn't even framed to be unhealthy so it's just. WEIRD.
....
It hurts to be a queerplatonic jondaisy truther. I loved their dynamic in season 4... they were both so isolated & yet they went through something.. beyond traumatic together. they were both seen as monsters (though Daisy was treated like a liability which served for her isolation). They actually spent time together !!! more than jon & fucking martin !!
JON & GERRY HAD MORE CHEMISTRY IN ONE EPISODE THAN JMART IN THE WHOLE PODCAST !!!!
anyways - thank you for reading my rant. HDJDHD
Getting into TMA fandom-first sounds like an absolute nightmare. I’m sorry.
I think that since Martin was a very simple character from the beginning - bland shy guy with no real flaws - fans held on to that vision of him, which in turn made them completely overlook any nuance that might’ve been there. They only noticed those moments that fit their image of the man - Martin bringing tea on their apocalyptic hike, Martin accidentally calling Jon adorable - and overlooked those that weren’t so sugary sweet - Martin refusing to acknowledge Jon’s needs and frankly anything the man said, Martin not caring about anything that doesn’t involve him directly.
I’m not gonna say more since it seems you share my point of view and I would be just repeating myself. JonDaisy is a great ship, same with JonGerry, but that is also because every single ship with Jon is better than the canon one. Almost all of the cast had more in common with Jon than he had with Martin
