---
layout:          post
title:           "MAG160.09 - Building the Panopticon - Making MAG 158"
date:            2020-03-05 11:00:00 -0400
categories:      incomplete
tags:            []
voiced:          []
episode_title:   'Building the Panopticon - Making MAG 158'
episode_number:  '160.09'
summary:         "SPOILERS NOTE: This ep includes discussion for the whole of Season 4, up to and including MAG160. <br/><br/>Anil hosts in this peek behind the curtain as members of the TMA production team talk about what it took to get gargantuan episode <i>Panopticon</i> to your ears!"
content_flags:   []
acast_url:       https://play.acast.com/s/themagnusarchives/buildingthepanopticon-makingmag158
formats:         
official:        false
unofficial:      http://www.youtube.com/
unofficial_name: YouTube CC
unfinished:      true
wiki_url:        
---

hi everyone Alex here I just like to

take a moment to thank some of our

patrons Michael spiral deserves rights

and alot Daniel Williams Heather H evil

angel Vivian starlight Kony's mom kjb

Cato planets and magic maryada Stephanie

Simon

Melissa Ponce Olivia puke Tatyana Beck

Brittany the paper librarian Kiera Apple

Lena Williams Danny thank you all we

really appreciate your support if you'd

like to join them go to www.hsn

and take a look at our rewards

[Music]

hello and welcome to this special

behind-the-scenes look at the Magnus

archives

I'm your host an elite gamer and with me

I have it Sammy

Johnny I'm Laurie and I produce the

Magnus archives

Alex I play Martin and direct and help

on production

I'm Elizabeth Moffatt and I work on the

vocal cuts for Magnus does the hard work

[Laughter]

it's great I love having a conversation

the other person just can't interact at

all that doesn't surprise me you're a

writer of course you do well today we're

going to look at what I think is safe to

say the most challenging episode of

season 4 episode 1 5/8 panopticon get

away from my secrets we're not gonna be

telling any everything went fine stop

asking let's delve a little bit deeper

into that shall we

who's wrote some words I don't know what

the big deal is cool let's start with

you then Johnny on the writing side um

what were you hoping to achieve with

this episode the tooth aspects of it I

think were probably

revelation and resolution because we

knew what was going down in season 5 and

we knew that 159 was going to be the

emotional climax of one very important

storyline and 160 was going to be the

start of the final phase one five eight

was very much our last chance to get all

the other all the sort of the disparate

strands saying put every single

character in the entire series into a

single episode yeah it was our last

chance to take all those different

storylines and put them get all the

pieces in place for season five in some

cases tying them off nicely like with

Gertrude or with Peter in other cases

getting them in a position so that when

we go into season five we can do all

sorts of interesting things with them I

had a writing teacher once and called it

which is a thing from there as well I

readying positions so it's like if

you're gonna do a multi-season thing you

need to make sure that everyone is in

ready positions for next season yes

was getting everyone in ready positions

getting some of them dead dead is a

ready position ready for position for

other people to be sad so that leads me

on to the question at what point did you

realize that it was going to involve so

many characters I mean pretty much from

the off to be honest like when we were

sitting down and planning out season 4

we did mark 1 5 8 as the episode that

was going to cause us problems I think

some of the problems that ended up

causing us were not necessarily the

exact ones we'd anticipated some of them

were unpredictable yeah but we certainly

knew that we knew that it was going to

be a big complicated episode with a lot

of different scenes and a lot of

different characters and interactions to

it well it's because as well thanks to

Laurie we have a big shiny like

spreadsheet which changes color and one

of the colors it can go is a nice big

bright red when there's too many too

many people dispensed it's all red yeah

there are all the colors they've never

come up no it's different shades of red

I can't take credit for that spreadsheet

that was yours wasn't it it changed long

I built at the rudimentary little wagon

and then you turn into a Ford shock

horror Alex and spreadsheets spreadsheet

soft most but not all problems there is

the problem for too many spreadsheets in

my experience spreadsheets highlight the

problems on the writing side how long

did it take you to write mag 1 5 8 that

is a good question and kind of a

difficult one because the scenes got

written at different points both because

of recording considerations and because

of some of them were resolutions to

different storylines and so got written

sort of concurrent to those storylines

like I think the I think the Gertrude

Elias one was actually written a good

few months before a lot of the other

scenes and there was a lot of the Peter

Martin scenes is one five eight the one

where we had to do a last-minute rewrite

due to a recording breaking the had fail

I think yes yes I think it is yes he

rewrites a special and there was also

there was some rewriting when we

realized that Ben and Alistair won't go

to be a record together yeah yeah that

was that led to quite a few quite

significant script revisions yeah we're

gonna come to that question absolutely

writing writing dialogue that can be

recorded in isolation it can be done and

you can get good dialogue but it it's

something you need to be aware of when

you're writing the lines because you

don't have you don't have a lot of

overlap you don't have a lot of like

direct back-and-forth

moving on to once you've finished the

script will move to script editing Alec

sir

when Johnny passed you the script what

was your first reaction he loved it that

is a very strong word loved it and it

was like Johnny you've done it again so

we have a couple of rules we should do

with maximum number of people and a

thing we accepted that this was gonna be

a big one I cried a little bit

we Roy when I saw how many scenes it was

because there's one thing to bear in

mind on the production side which is

worth knowing which is this is gonna

sound really weird to bear with me more

scenes even if it's with the same number

of people is worse than this than less

scenes with the same or even less people

and what it comes down to is if you have

multiple scenes you have to do the audio

equivalent of an establishing shot which

is where like people know from TV so

you've got like your big you start with

the exterior big spooky house exterior

cut to interior and I've assembled all

of the suspects here Bubba lights and

it's establishing shot so the people

know what they're looking at before it

starts you have to do that with audio as

well but what that means is if you've

got ten scenes you have to do

establishing shots and you have to make

sure that everything is distinct in pace

and in soundscape and in tempo and so on

so that when you are bouncing them

between those scenes people know where

they are that I wasn't ready for I was

ready for there to be lots of people I

think at some point I must have flown

under my radar on Owen

where we we started the series with an

average of two and then we hit ten on

that one and that one caught me by

surprise we expect I was expecting like

maybe six you know I was like that's

manageable tens a lot terms of loss like

that threw me we had close to 10 for the

unknowing that's fair but I use a few

tricks and sheets in the amenities there

leads me into like how do you go about

breaking it up for recording something

that is as large as that that's probably

worth handing over to you LOI and so far

as I think for15 a you broke it up more

than anyone just because you were

handling the logistics at that point

well I guess it's breaking up by person

I mean ideally you want people to travel

in the minimum number of times and you

want everyone in the room at the same

time which can't always happen as I

discovered on one five eight I mean I

don't know that I did do much breaking

down because I

Alex and Joanie had produced this you

know a spreadsheet that I work from

essentially which is breaking down all

the scenes so I just saw right there are

ten scenes there are ten people some

people are in scenes with different

people so they need to be in the room at

the same time that's a bit of a

nightmare

yeah I don't know I think with this with

the spreadsheet for instance how it

works is you you take an episode and we

split it into scenes even if it's not

like a clear transition between them and

so like Elizabeth you'll you'll do this

all the time where it's like we'll have

statement and then the post statement is

a separate see ya in inverted commas but

for that one we just record it together

there's no reason to separate now where

is four one five eight and four anything

that's got a huge number you end up

having to go scene by scene and you also

can go by version and scene so you can

have like scene one which has three

people in it now let's say that those

three people can't be in the same room

so you'll have seen one and then you'll

have version one which is with this

person version two which might be with

these two people and version 3 which is

this person so you can see one version

one two three then you have takes within

versions so you have seen one version to

take to scene

version three take two and then you can

find versions and you pick the best take

from each version you combine the

versions and then you have a scene and

then you can like the scenes in two

other scenes you have an episode sorry I

wasn't listening could you say that

again the vocal clapperboard basically

honestly yeah and people laughed when

Lydia playing Melanie did the clap when

she was gonna do a recording and so on

that's what we'd literally do like we

you literally do markers on tapes and so

on but I think Elizabeth would agree

that the process of combining all of

those is trivial no time investment

whatsoever and is is almost automated by

this point really well I mean for

episode 1 5 8 it ended up being 4 hours

and 8 minutes of recording recording

sessions so those were the same scene

but you had one like not Sasha I think

was yeah she was yeah and then obviously

we had been recorded in isolation and

all of those combined so it's only and

it was like yeah 4 hours because I just

did a quick check and then of course

you're like well for those 4 hours 8

minutes you've also got at least two

people in each scene in each record so

there's probably like maybe it live in

12 hours worth of actual yeah yeah I did

prepare myself an hour episode in mind

as well just because from production

experience and other stuff this is gonna

sound peculiar like for anyone who's

like doing this professionally they're

gonna go that's actually a decent like

ratio of raw to thingy but what it is is

the reason that we as a company function

is that we've paired processes down as

much as we can and we keep shaving and

trying to make it more efficient so

bizarrely for like let's say for a radio

play or if you were doing TV for

instance that not maybe not live

broadcast but you know I'm talking about

like the ratio that's not like if you're

doing one to four I think and film yeah

consider pretty good yes

film film I think last time I checked a

ver ajiz at one to ten yeah once a four

is like yeah you're doing a good job

you're a good director if you're

managing one to four this is

significantly higher than ours but it's

also worth bearing in mind this is all

your only

we have like 140 episodes under the belt

in terms of infrastructure so yeah going

up to that that's what a factor of maybe

factor of 10 higher than we would

normally have relative to the it's hard

to say I mean I guess the average

episode where it was like just a Johnny

episode would be maybe 40 minutes worth

of recording yeah statements like the

statements you get maybe 10 minutes more

than you actually get because it's

generally one storytelling take with

sections repeated if I've flogged up a

word or that sort of thing I think most

dialogue scenes we generally do maybe

have three four takes if we're

struggling yes fair so yeah as a rule

Magnus is actually bizarrely

like surprisingly efficient the wastage

isn't that high book and I mean

obviously that time includes you guys

chatting in the start

you never arrange multiple shows record

in the same day yes it seems better on

paper but it isn't it just isn't the

doorbell today doesn't mean you get

quite happily nice little outtakes I

have like a small collection of just

doorbell noises you would be surprised

what I've stored like a folder like I

might litter for me I'm happy to let it

be known to the public there is a breath

library there's been building we have a

breast library fer what's happening well

this person's in the scene but they're

not speaking but we need them to feel in

the scene we'll just use some of Johnny

breath seven genuinely we do have like

stock breath just built up organically

that's fairly natural because room tone

is something that is very consistently

needed and used in audio and video

productions which is why it's a benefit

so we actually record in our unusual

room which is normally when you're

calling vocal work you don't need this

extreme like in terms of soundproofing

and baffling and so on because you end

up in something called like a null space

or like a like dead space I'll be honest

I haven't been in that many recording

studios that have as many told iron

blips headed into the wall helps with

the resonance pain and if you're a

resonance specifically sure but so if

you're doing like corporate voiceovers

yeah you'll be in an old room you know

like I come to Canada we've got bears

but like you put that in an old room but

when you're recording my audio drama in

scenes it normally needs to sound like

it's in a room shocker so as a result

you just use standard soundproofing

which is a little bit whereas we've

built this to be as dead as it can be

because we're bouncing around between

locations and stuff but it doesn't mean

that we had add artificial room tone

plus he used to have mic as a character

oh yes I see boys sandbags are a valid

strategy to deal with mic much like an

enormous flood a sandbag is a good way

to deal with that how do you apply a

sandbag to deal with mine hold it it

absorbs the chest resonance so yeah

there's a reason that when we were

recording off single mic and stuff you

used to stand at the back of the single

file so that everywhere all the fleshy

meat sacks could absorb those you then

it was me was that this is like in the

early days where we had to do a finale

with multiple people like season 1 yeah

it was you than me then eve met Nobby it

was season 2 we were in the disco flat

right don't be just before brutal found

them yes it sounds a brutal murder it

was the era of my mother to sit on a

chair in a corridor under so let's let's

run through the list then just I really

going completely off piste here but you

know it's what I do

don't worry and so we have set up one a

clothes of the earth a clothes horse

with some blankets on the sofa in the

flat that I was a lodger

asbestos flap and no no way pre asbestos

so this is close yet in James Russell

yes he let me start rusty cool gaming in

there and the first episodes of mags

were recorded there yes I'd forgotten

that

from there we migrated to in asbestos

which was so far yeah in a special which

was really weird because it was

literally one minutes walk away from

where I had been living a year before

but we thought we'd make wait I'm sorry

mister yeah then asbestos gate happened

where everything that I owned was

destroyed so after the chaos we bounced

to an old place called Twickenham I mean

now I can say I'm not by now talking

Road and which was sort of near but not

the same place so then we were recording

there where I literally bought furniture

specifically because it was more useful

to record with and that point that was

where we piled what five duvets on

Lottie that was where she could scream

at midnight that's where we did

screaming until 4:00 a.m. and none of

the neighbors they heard they just

didn't care then after that one we

leased London yep then after that one we

had to bounce - that's disco corridor

yeah disco corridor cause Martin or head

of tech we had we found a corridor that

he had in his flat I was like yeah I can

make this work was nice a 13th floor and

so upon the 13th floor which is away

from tough traffic nice although wind

big problem Martin thought would be

hilarious if you replace the light bulb

where we were recording with a disco

light bulb so if you turn the light on

while you're recording it was full like

that that's like quiet it just sort of

slowly sadly rotated it was a good disco

ball lovely

then we migrated from disco corridor to

here it was a free studio here oh when

you just pinned a bunch of people the

bunch of sleeping bags to a wall my

father just took such a leap of faith he

turned up when he was it was still

sleeping by God it wasn't even corridor

where like your mom was like I

understand what's happening here that's

fine this is a temporary we were as your

dad was like so this is your permanent

set I was like yeah

[Laughter]

let's bring this back to Dayton specific

um Laurie when Alex told you what the

episode was going to require what were

your thoughts well I don't remember Alex

telling me I just remember looking at

the spreadsheet and going oh oh oh oh

there are ten scenes and ten people who

all live scattered across the country

everyone's in London it's that episode

happens to have all of the most

far-flung people all in the same episode

yes a cambridge Ian's down from Brighton

or that isn't that big oh yeah we've got

that was I forget where but it was away

at that point in reading young mum oh

yeah no and you know what else but the

big thing for me so I had oh nice been

producing Magnus for I think three

months I cannot imagine how dreadful

that was usually made to cover the

previous producer because I will say

yeah that was a story Sylvester who did

a fantastic job and she basically left

to pursue other projects more power to

her and and it was hilarious because I

know for a fact that story was like

we've got this it's all gonna be fine

and then I was like I'm gonna have to

move on which one it was like story said

that we have this little did I think I

should probably make sure that that is

passed to low really in some way so I

need to put this in the in the on set

the record straight story was wonderful

and all of the reasons for any

difficulty transfer wasn't me this was

all me I don't think it was there was a

bit of a gap between her leaving and me

starting as well I think yeah cuz that's

that's my choices yeah I have to produce

it for a while yeah and that's one

problem stuff because you have so much

on right I remember there was a phone

call I don't remember why I was in Seven

Dials at the time I was literally

sitting on the little in the roundabout

chatting and this was the conversation

where we were like okay well let's we'll

have to do a bunch of it like recording

separately like this is a this is a

yeah this was the conversation was that

okay well for this episode we're

suspending our policy of always tried to

have people in the same room and you

know it was it was a lovely conversation

you're like no I have had a little cry

the thing that really puts panic well

there were two things I put a big

spanner in the works that I did not

foresee was Edinburgh Fringe I looked at

this and we according to our another

spreadsheet we needed to have the

recording done by mid September and this

was July at the time so I was emailing

people hey can you come in we've got

some scenes here lovely and of course so

many of the guests were in Edinburgh so

that took all of August out says like

okay that's fine we didn't do this it's

worth explaining so for us listen we

have cool there's the formally

international Edinburgh Festival a whole

bunch festivals at the same time the

Enbridge International Festival is one

of them the fringe is a separate thing

there was the Film Festival at the top

at the same so there's a massive massive

massive festival that happens I say one

it's like eight of them but it uses up a

whole month but there's a thing in the

UK which is that pretty much everyone in

the arts will be in there in some

capacity and as a side effect it means

that almost all things get made around

that month yeah it warps the production

me I wonder forever like the last couple

of years of the first couple years in

like ten years I haven't been up there

doing with either mechanisms or some

other project I only stopped once em

basically once the company was running

out I miss it a bit you must enjoy your

money though because the problem about

the in rear fringe is who've it goes up

there regardless of mechanisms we did

alright actually we was well we were a

free show but we had we sold CDs

afterwards as like Oh a fiver

we'll also get a CD so a lot of people

were like oh well it was for you to come

and so we'll just buy a CD so we

actually did alright I don't miss it I

would mostly be up in Edinburgh with Oh

caveat here it would be with like six

shows or something but it's because I'd

be like I'd be crave director on one I'd

be Resident Director on another which is

where you just make sure that the show

doesn't fall apart but you're not you

didn't build the thing I did pitch you

this I did pitch you Magnus at the end

of a friend oh yeah like I'm eventually

gonna have to go back but ya know I'm

not hugely keen if I'm honest I mean go

there doing something

and be aware that it's not if you enjoy

really intense kind of going a little

unstable across the course of a month

because you're exhausted and stressed

and really busy all the time

if you enjoy that sort of thing it's

amazing if you don't it's just do a week

like I would say as a caveat it depends

whether it is a full professional

business thing for you or not

if it's a full professional like this is

your livelihood you've got to do at

least three shows a day to even begin

looking at covering costs plus you then

want to have a side gig so for me it was

teching other shows and things like that

but it does mean you aren't generally

working 12 to 13 hours a day like hard

work as well I was often I would hate to

do it in any sort of professional

capacity it's you know like it was it

was great sort of the seven eight of us

crammed into a flat going yes literally

but like the self-contained project

where that's your thing you do it any

leave I've done before while ago was

great when you it's like this is me

doing my networking for an entire year

in a single month at the same times

doing all of this but certainly

background there's a reason why the

entirety of all list is just dead it's

just dead every year yeah and it's very

hard to book people for August yeah so

the second thing that kind of spanner in

our works was someone very very

selfishly getting married at the end of

September yeah that of course takes the

studio out of play for weeks I mean no

but that would only

be the case if whoever was getting

married lived in the house with the

studio which would be madness by the way

because London real estate is is

fractionally like zero like rent is in

London so yeah maybe I was mistaken and

it was all necessary or if like half the

company weren't going to said where's

quite challenging to get everyone in the

same room and in fact we didn't get

everyone in the same room and I we did

it was more of a tent but everyone so

how do you go about organizing a cost

recording of that scale cheese doodle

poles good start

yeah actually I looked back on my emails

before coming here just cuz I want you

to get some dates right and the very

first I very naively just sent out

emails and then about three or four

emails later

oh sweet so much oh please just put your

availability in because ah yeah I

remember getting that back and you and

Ben in particular Alex just looking at

nd like there is no day there is not a

single day I both of you combined were

like 50 options or something cuz one of

the benefits is having our own studio

comes a couple of advantages and one of

which is it makes the flexibility

plausible this the stuff that we make

would physically not be possible if we

didn't do our own studio like

categorically is completely out the way

and we can utilize a commercial studio

on the basis that we record well no

because even things like if someone's

like for a recording great you recording

shop which is fine when you don't

release the thing until the entire

things recorded and you have a 16-month

production we know we don't it's we're

making way too much content so that's a

big thing so you have to have your own

but even then so that means that on a

doodle poll that was like 9:00 a.m. to

11:00 a.m. 11:00 a.m. until 2:00 v like

there were 10 options per day 40 days

and of course that makes it even worse

when you think about the fact that alex

has to be here for the recording to

happen because he runs the studio so if

you won't be able to get he does not

understand compression and I many times

you drill it into him here's the couple

look if you balance your eq's you get a

dreamy he just steals the bag and runs

oh he's a good cat and buffet he's quite

good on narrative structure now been

taking me through some basic maybe six

scenes

find three we're gonna get a co-writing

credit on season five their secret the

catalyst in mangas archives isn't Casper

I think fans know that by now but still

there may be new new people new people

who are not actually that vocal he's not

just sort of silently glides up and then

you're like oh hello Casper and then

he's like embrace me okay sure so aside

from the scheduling were there any other

kind of difficulties that you ran into

yeah honestly this was the first show of

this scale that I had produced because I

had come from gaming which because it

has been running for so long and is so

regular in its recording schedule it's

actually yeah it's not I mean you need a

producer but it's not it doesn't keep

changing exactly as you said it's stable

it's it's built to be as boring to

produce as possible

yes I think coming in to Magnus and you

know I'd never produce something I mean

gaming is improv so I'd never had to

think about the fact that I've booked

this recording I have to tell Johnny to

write that script you know that was that

was a thing where I had oh no there has

been a okay Larry I've finished up this

script and it's been like oh actually

that's not the one we're recording next

we need these two episodes it was a

steep learning curve okay it's all right

to be honest I am I've said it before

I'm a bit of a deadline writer so I'm

quite happy being like okay two episodes

in in two days yeah sure that's fine

leaves me the rest of the week to not do

anything why would you tell me that

because we're putting this tomorrow I

mean if you do I'll get it written I

won't I mean I won't

good in the recording because I believe

so how long did it actually take to

record all the different things though

oh I don't think I'm going to answer

that I don't know

so talking from raw audio which was four

hours and four hours eight minutes of

time demonstration like from foot like

from the the day the first thing with

recorded to the bed when was on the 6th

of September because there was so when

did the episode drop it was edited by

the 21st of September yeah one day late

most of the time so Mac 160 was 31st of

October well 30th because we have we

released a day early for the O's so yes

a mid October with the episode drop and

we'll talk about some of the other

problems on that side a bit in a bit I

mean I came here prepared to look at us

within the eye and say I'm so sorry I

couldn't say from first scene of that

episode being recorded to last scene

more than a month oh definit maybe

pushing to yeah because I think I think

the Gertrude Elias scene was recorded

quite separately - but I don't think

they were recorded together right uh no

ghostwritten Elias

because they were the hardest of this

episode yeah yeah they do

oh do they know that when I was trying

to match it like with other ones like

with you know the Martin Peter Elias I

had the overlap of the people being in

the room together who were in the room

together and then I could work with that

and that had that natural flow I was the

only one way it was completely yeah it

was two separate ones and I really found

it hard to find whether an overlap would

work or because when you're editing it I

sort of visualize it right I've got

Rome and I might think about like are

they gonna pace you know I think of it

almost like television or film I stopped

the apothem teleporting across the room

in terms of timing Majan re blocking

that you're doing that I found that

seeing the hardest by far that's one

that I spent way more time on the nude

aspect compared to the other scenes and

especially I think that in Bert we got

trinkets sharp edge and the takes that

are head and it was written in the

script you know like Street and words

that cheese is shocked but she's not

yeah but she didn't give any bracelet

thorn like when you fall down the stairs

or something happens which is a bit of a

shock to your body you take very short

shallow breaths so I built in some of

that breath works but then afterwards

when I noticed that the scripted three

shots didn't occur when I listened to

the episode I was like maybe that's my

fault

maybe if like three shots two things

happen there one was that that is an

element but my your fault insofar as

like the timings for three didn't work

like they just didn't yeah the second

thing is because we were so up against

it I think mentally I made a mental note

of what I'll do is I'll do one shot and

then I'll say I'll have him say pity and

then just do two more shots after she's

on the ground and then I can just dodge

the timing thing then didn't that

concludes the explanation

I do remember listening to it back and

going timing the work I've been giving

this a lot of thought the work around I

had was you had to do the two shots

after the fact I mean I'd be fine yeah

post was a little bit stressful I mean

it was flawless okay so moving on to

some questions about the directing given

all the issues with the recordings being

so split up like that how smoothly would

you say that the actual recordings went

intense where's Alex it's a big

complicated question because the

variation is huge so once you realize

that a recording session is one Scene

one version so you can do multiple takes

in a single recording session but you

can only do one version per session you

can't do

two versions in the same session

otherwise you just have them in the same

room at the same time so what that means

is like between recording sessions as

huge variation I would say that

generally speaking things were better

than they would have been if we'd have

done them earlier because a lot of

people got used to some of the shortcuts

and tricks that we use so for instance

early days doing any kind of combats so

like the Daisy Becerra and the running

and blah blah blah was rough people

didn't know what worked people didn't

really know what you were getting at I'm

gonna make a bit of an elaborate

comparison but bear with me on this

journey I'm not as pompous as this will

initially sound okay

any of you know about like the director

who worked on the Mad Max remakes I

believe so but I don't know like the

fury road it's not remakes it's the same

guy who did the original so he's done it

like there's a one square that you can

basically all the action happens in yes

yeah yeah so I am NOT comparing myself

to that director let's put that to bed I

am saying though is that he was well

known my own record especially for the

newer one as basically the cast didn't

get what he was getting at and a couple

of them openly publicly confessed

afterwards they were like I was a bit of

an ass like did not get what you were

getting at I totally see it now it's

fine

combat in the early days of Magnus was a

lot like that where people like don't

really know what's happening a lot is

that what you don't know what you are

yeah yeah a lot of knocks you grab

yourself in shake and people look at me

like I'm insane I'm completely lost the

plot it's like no trust trust me on this

but as time has gone on people have

learned these tricks and they've heard

the end result gone okay so that makes

you do this and that's the fix that da

da da so that went a lot easier that

said there were a few issues which was

time compression was a huge problem

which is that a recording session can be

compressed to a point and then no more

and where it's just the case of this was

probably the episode most where at the

end of a recording session I would just

contact Larry and go yeah Larry and we

were meant to do three scenes two

versions we have done two scenes two

versions and it's not a case of okay can

we accelerate guys because if you

accelerate you're ruining the Ted scenes

the scene is garbage the

take his garbage do it again so if you

go quick you're doing more take so it

actually takes longer than if you just

cut off what that means is you would

book a recording for let's get three

scenes done today and you will get one

scene done staying all we need an

emergency recording to pick you up and

then you do the emergency recording if

somebody comes up in you and you do one

scene not the other two so you need

another recording so this is the one

where within room everyone was very

professional things were fine I think

there was one bit towards the end where

I started to lose my temper a little bit

which was the recordings had broken it

was this the episode where allister's I

forget that it might have been 1-5 I

think we had him in because we had him

we had him doing one five eight and

there was one where I didn't lose my

temper of performers but I did lay down

the lure in a way I don't normally know

it is all conversation that is not

recorded to stop now stop stop stop

talking no now if we don't record this

within the next ten minutes the episode

will not drop shush stop I don't

normally operate like that so that was a

bit of a weird one but for the rest

mostly people started to be aware that

we were up against it and with that

comes an element of people don't mess

around and that's not me sort of casting

aspersions it's just that when you're up

against that people tend to put the game

face on you know also to be honest Alex

you are a good director and you inspire

a certain degree of loyalty so most

people are willing to like really go to

bat to record an episode when they need

to it is better to be feared than loved

and to convince everyone to say that you

are loved on audio strong adjectives

here so actually on the directing side

as well did you learn anything from the

unknowing at the end of season 3 that

was useful

[Laughter]



I learned a lot in the Unknowing mainly

in what you can get away with none of

which was applicable which is why one

508 was a headache so for the unknowing

I knew straight out the gate hang on ah

number one I have creepy circus music in

the cab wasn't originally creepy circus

music it was nice circus music that we

then made creepy fantastic but then with

the unknowing this is something that I

genuinely have had and you can

corroborate Johnny we have had sit-down

meeting so I've gone right it's time to

learn what is easy to edit and what's

hard to get wasn't easy to recorded most

talking about season five with you know

a while back and I was like oh this is

gonna be really tough because there's

like loads of loads of proper hell

scapes in this this is a transformed

world a lot of episodes are going to

have like strong unknowing vibes and

you're like oh no that's fine that's

fine because one five eight the

difficulty was it was all in the real

world so everything had to sound real

and what Alex has drilled into me over

and over again mainly verbally sometimes

physically is that things that people

don't know what they should sound like

because they are Otherworld

all right hell of a lot easier up -

soundscape the things that people like

people know what running through a

corridor in a basement should sound the

error margin is tiny people know what it

sounds like when a door gets kicked in

even if it's not sure it's that classic

thing that a punch and you've also got

to take into account that some things

you don't need to sound realistic you

need to figure out what brand of

non-realistic people will correctly act

exactly

exactly it's like no that might not be

how a tour actually sounds when it gets

kicked in but that is the knot but you

need to figure out which of the noises

that people will be like that's what's

happening gunshots are a good example

that the secret with with the secret

you're doing a good gun shot and audio

is that you need to really really

compress the tail so that the initial

bang in a real gunshot a natural

waveform you just see a line it just

goes bang pops every mic and then

there's no other sound so the way that

you do audio gunshots as an example is

they're not real what you do is you

compress the heck out of it so you hear

lots of the tail but the initial bang is

quite quiet but that's the exactly kind

of thing

so for the unknowing you just put a

bunch of creepy music underneath it's

the only time we've done scene

transitions where the music swells and

comes down because it's allowed because

the unknowns kind of theatrical also one

thing was it might have been you two

told me this but apparently when in

films they're filming people like being

on fire like in an action movie or

something like that they never direct

them to act as if they're being on fire

because it is categorically too

disturbing because they scream like this

so they what they tell them is imagine

you've got a swarm of bees on you gets

the level we're like oh my gosh somebody

big on fire and be like oh they're on

fire without being like what someone

with their arms down yeah yeah yeah

running on fire would be just horrifying

that makes sense yeah and actually I

don't you tighten up you really rapidly

I mean like I don't know getting out of

my yeah I don't I mean I've never stuck

around to what I know how to although we

learned a lot in your knowing the issue

in one five eight is they are all

knowable spaces so seasons 5 is grand

it's just like ah you know what I need

the sound of a thousand people screaming

trivial come on

and moving into spoiler territory a good

example okay hey go the the anglerfish

is a baby

slowed down 60 times I think and then

with reverb and and bass boost added to

it it's just a baby going easy no one

knows what angle fish sounds like no one

cares

but the ultimate evil which I have been

hating is transitions from one space to

another someone is in the archivist

office opens a door steps out into a

corridor that's hours of work that is

absolutely hours of work to get that

right and see one five eight is full of

stuff like that yeah absolutely I know

people love the phrase Chaka is shocker

with stuff that sounds like oh cool

and he's like cool that door that that's

three hours of work Oh

what happened someone dropped their gun

clock in two more hours of post it's

just because everything's knowable and

whereas all of the finales up to then

have been sufficiently way I was worried

about the lone nails like Alex are you

gonna be alone and you're like yeah it's

it's just gonna be like a beach sound

and then I'm gonna do a bunch of audio

effects on yeah it'll be lonely lonely

was easy because I was just like cool

it's gonna be in one space that's the

only role as long as it's one space we

can get this out real quick actually

question and it's not one five eight so

it's one five nine and it's the only

episode where we've got panning of audio

technically not true there's a small

amount in the unknowing oh is there and

I was like oh the rules that I have

always had which has been unspoken and

it's a house style rule but I've never

had to teach anyone cuz did the

soundscapes and people gonna build

theories on this know anything about it

so the tape sounds aa stereo all of the

vocals are mono so they are not an

actual tape recorder would record in

mono is that yeah yeah yeah so an actual

tape recorder recorder - we have things

in mono meaning that it doesn't have any

part it's just flat down the level

everything centered in if you were

wearing headphones it's centered in the

middle your head yep okay the tape

recorder is in stereo do the juice from

that what you will all of the effects

are in mono as well so like someone's

dropping a gun so while going through a

door whatever anything that's full post

ritual so in like the unknowing that was

full ritual style all of the music

because it's semidigested meaning that

so digesting Imagi attic diegetic means

in scene as in like it's one's listen to

a radio in a car and it's on the TV it's

cristo jet ik if it is non-diegetic it's

like a film score where the audience

can't hear the characters can't hear it

no I'm trying to think of like die rich

it's pretty bad so semidigested is the

one where it's like a character is

driving down the road listening to the

radio and then the music swells until

it's the sound right okay so the

unknowing has semidigested where they're

hearing music but it's actually stereo

and it's done the way that Magnus

is and the Magnus music has always been

non-diegetic so that one bled there this

is on the sort directorial warm thing

for 160 because of that I started to

mess around with making it become panned

because there in a post ritual scenario

so it should have been beginning to pan

a little bit at the start of the episode

and then towards the end all have gone

full like panning and stereo alright so

we mentioned in passing that Ben and

Alistar we're not in the room together

to record their lines what are the

challenges that come with directing a

scene like that honestly directing is

not as bad as you might think what it

just consists of is having an idea for

what the scene is in your head and

making extra effort to make things match

that so you are the meeting place

between these two recordings if you have

all the time in the world what you do is

you play that recording for the next

person who comes in so they have a sense

of pacing and bla bla bla bla bla bla

bla we did do that in fairness for one

of the pairings but we couldn't fill the

other because the turnaround was too

tight I can't remember who it was I

think it might have been the Gertrude

been one where they have to do it in

complete isolation from one another so

in that one what you have to do is go

tell one person okay this is the way the

scene should be and then get the other

person to home in on that however I am

gonna be honest and say that the art

isn't in the directing in that it's just

not it's in the editing is in the vocal

edit specifically the directing is just

again could you do that better better

how better in this specific way I'll try

rinse repeat

sure in vocal edit is one where it's

taking something there's a little bit

broken and making it not I think what

you're really hoping when you get the

files is that the energy between them is

the same because I think when you've got

someone beside you you are feeding about

that yes same amount of energy they have

the one scene which I've edited where I

was like god this is completely

mismatched was when Mel is she's angry

at Johnny and this is after the surgery

[Music]

and I was like [ __ ] because like you

were yeah much low energy and she is

like you know yeah like she's really

really high and so it was difficult over

this one I think tonight did I record

this first order che this is end of one

five seven it's around that you will be

free pre therapy Melanie yeah oh sorry I

thought you were talking about I'm sorry

because that was a thing I was really

pressed again with you and I remember

looking at the script and sometimes you

do it with the script so when I get they

eat it so I'll download the script and I

get some editing notes from Alex which

will have some time codes for when

things happen very good notes all are

well depends whether you're on a scene

or not that's really true it's so

obviously I go by the script I look for

if there's gonna be any noises that I'm

not expecting because sometimes you

listen through a demonstration yeah and

the editor thank you for that problem

it's fine Elizabeth will take care of it

I can only laugh so much about that I

know you know you so you're looking for

maybe unexpected things that if you're

just listening to people talking you

might just not expect that they're there

unless there's a specific reaction to it

and you're like oh it's a gun okay so

you got to you got to know oh no those

are a nightmare but sometimes what you

do need to do is in that case I played

with the timing of your lines so what

you'd scripted I've moved it so that was

more spread out with her so you're

trying to interrupt her but more rather

than and also add in a bit more like of

your arms and hours from other bits so

that you really came out became a

sounding good you know just to give you

that sort of sense like you're you're

trying to get to her while she's in the

middle of the you know I'll say

arraigned but while she's in the middle

yeah came out really really well because

that's what we call them as light as a

arbitrary phrase it's not a real thing

like Frank and voicing yeah so yeah like

Franklin voicing is where you take

something that someone said mean like

this doesn't work

we'll chop it up and make it work and

put it back together like a Frankenstein

oh yeah well a Frankenstein's monster

before his name was Adam Frankenstein

yes I mean you know it was the son of

Victor Frankenstein it works he's still

Frankenstein we will come back to the

thing by I've got one last question for

Alex from the directing phone how many

takes we needed for the Elias laughs to

admit this he got it on the first take

just in case he doesn't quite look as he

did he did a really good laugh but I

remember quite distinctly that there

wasn't any relief in the laughs it was

all amusement and so like once we

explained what the laugh was because he

didn't because he didn't actually know

what was going to happen in 160 so we

had to explain no this is you've just

nailed this you have this is the laugh

of my plan is now actually basically

complete then it kind of all were to

know like as soon as we explained to him

what the laugh actually was he just did

it it's really annoying by the way his

ego doesn't need that and it's also

annoying cause Villas just won an award

okay yeah I know I know

villain laughs traditionally are

terrible like no one can do villain

laughs that everyone thinks they can

that's what it is everyone thinks

they've got the villain laughs and no

one does and he happens to have it oh

yeah yeah in fairness

Lori's mom has a fabulous cackle and was

still disappointed because the one that

made it into bloopers isn't full cackle

that was a little like a little side

cackle teaser and that was that wasn't a

15-second er which I am heard oh yeah oh

yeah a 15-second around the end of it

you're not bored you know they're gonna

ask for that now I don't have it it's

not recorded oh there is no recording a

15-second cackle which I know that your

mummys Kate's fine you're overselling

out I disagree I mean bring her back for

season five I want it I'm just saying we

could record the cackle if we slowed it

down like 50 times put some bass in

that's a hellscape turn it into an EDM

I think so moving on to the editing

we've we've touched on this throughout

but a lot of the comments from the fans

have been how good the editing in the

soundscape and on this episode were

which obviously starts with the vocal

card you've touched on a bit about the

editing notes that alex has given you

what were your thoughts when you saw

though who sir I remember I did have a

glance back and I remember there was a

piece and read which is like just ignore

this bit it's just here for safety which

I'd really ignored in the editing notes

and the words strap and was also at one

point is because it was like wasn't that

one version that was like so this is

take 16 and there was one way just went

on and on and I think that was when me

when the hunters burst in yeah lot of

takes of them a lot of different because

that was what we did have everyone in

the room so there were five people in

the room and like there were just a lot

of takes a lot a lot of different energy

levels low trying it different ways it

was amazing like especially because that

was both Ian and Faye who are two of the

harder ones to coordinate with travel I

mean that was probably more luck than

anything so basically I was I just come

back from a really great hole I was able

to listen to some edits that I hadn't

been involved in which you know I

jealously want to do all the work so it

does give me a little bit of joy to be

able to also then listen to it it's I

don't know what's happening before for

any of it right I just wait until I get

it oh yes like it's interesting

sometimes you like yours is the first

audience reaction know what's going on

Alex knows and then you're getting

you'll be like oh so this happened

dinner

I remember 160 I like Johnny I have to

tell all my friends to listen to this

demerit it drops cuz it's like yeah yeah

my brother is still like why don't you

just end it season 4 cuz he was like

it's the perfect evening

this is how harsh it will be honest

there is like that was something weird

but at the same time I I'm really

interested in what happens after yeah

yeah no I saw my so yeah normally I just

listen to it as it comes in although

obviously first script like this you

with so many scenes you have to read it

and understand what's going on you can't

just like with the statements you can

just start playing it and editing it but

it was pretty intense and I just went at

it and then normally what I do is if I

if these little sections of things where

I don't know because I'm not doing the

sound scraping I have to assume that

Alex will need some more time and spots

to allow for the sound scraping and also

like pulling out little bits that you

might want to reuse so that's because

you're not happy with fabulous habit to

have the one that I've chosen so that's

kind of how I approach it but it was it

was a big innit I think overall it took

me like 25 hours saying since you've

been doing vocal cuts or at least as

long as I am you been doing the vocal

cuts I haven't actually had to go back

to raw which is quite rare so normally

in mastering because again because the

tide turnarounds and something what'll

happen is that we'll have the vocal cut

and then we'll add in the soundscape

never allowed in the music over the top

and then mastering you kind of make sure

that all levels are correct and I'll be

like damn it

that was a good vocal cut but I need to

swap that out because of this other

thing I don't actually think I've ever

had to go back to raw with a vocal that

you've done now I think about it which

is really rough but it's because you

provide those options yeah yeah I'm the

massive enormous difference for me

exactly so if there's been multiple

screams I will edit those really so that

he can just go oh character and didn't

like that scream that she you know that

Elizabeth picked or I need to it's not

working for some other reason because of

the actual sound scaping I like your

notes that come with them so if you like

okay

I've included this string cuz I think

the timings right frankly I preferred

demented three ones and apparently

demented threes probably not gonna work

with the timing so I'm very including it

just in case but if you can fit in

demented three or maybe apocalypse five

that's a good attitude

I like that I just like the little

nightie yeah that's like we always say

Elizabeth is the best unless you're

another podcast company listen to this

in which case Elizabeth is I wouldn't

even approach her were there any other

challenges that come with the very

piecemeal nature of this episode and so

many calf being involved I think that

you know as mentioned the big thing is

actually so it will take longer to eat

it because you need to go through just

more footage so to speak and then

whether or not the energy is right

between the actors I think you know to

be honest I think it's mostly covered

it's just that energy it will take

longer because you're having to go

through more folders yeah I don't think

I've got much more to add unfortunately

it's not really any shortcuts you can

say and then we did this shot good

because we already take all of the

shortcuts we make a lot of stuff like

it's not really if there's no more

shortcuts we can make without massively

compromising quality oh you should be

cutting scenes like at that point if you

like called scenes three and six are

having sorry there were a few ones where

we were like look this scene we could

drop it it will make the story worse it

will make the episode worse but if we

literally cannot do the scene it would

function without it we can't draw a good

example the Sarah and Daisy are in three

scenes in one five maids the recording

in scene two originally had Daisy saying

a bunch of lines that recording was one

of the ones that broke so as a result we

had to do an emergency rewrite and

basically redo the scene in such way

that Daisy was listening to hear what

was going on and we need you - Shh so

technically that counts as another

appearance by Hannah as someone else's

character

I thought we thought we mash to go she

loved being one of the Hannah she's I

believe a knife sense Ernie was one of

the hamsters yeah yeah no it was like

there's the same it's someone else doing

that yeah yes Daisy shush was actually

these all her breathing though I believe

because we have that big breath library

I think it's no no that's from there

because I don't use this I don't I've

got my own brief life

we collect breath yes store there's not

many of them though not a big breather

I'm not in studio very often barely

breathe rally blinks and the times have

been in studio I haven't been on my girl

actually when you've got list characters

in you can just grab a breath what right

it's only one or two characters you just

grab it from earlier it becomes

problematic when you've got like four

characters and you're like okay I need

to you know Alex is gone everyone do a

lot of Brits didn't like Alex it sounds

like an have too many than too few

see where were all shouting so much for

so long that we all got dizzy because

there wasn't enough oxygen and it was

one of the last ones involving Mike yeah

that probably would have been back in

the unknowing I think it was actually no

it was when everyone was freaking out

because the unknowing happened we did

like five takes so give too many gas

with with five takes or more of like the

unknowing starting to happen and

everyone was like freaking out and yet

by the end we were like we need to go

out yeah coming towards the end of

season three there was a lot of

breathing a lot so Alex you were doing

most of the soundscape in for season

four were there any specific issues that

the soundscape in for mag one five eight

raised uh what happened in one five

eight corridor by the way has done these

things where they've read the questions

ahead of time they prepare the know

Sasha was release yeah okay not Sasha

releasing let's go through that they're

not Sasha releasing was astonishingly

easy because Yves just on it he's

another one who can just do villain

straight out the gate yeah Yves very

much a one take wonder where she'll do

it look like actually it needs to be

this just like oh I didn't realize

banging it starts so Yves Yves lovely to

work for for that I know the the tunnels

are okay because we have a lot of

pre-made templates yeah that we can

bring in for like three verbs and so on

so it's just like add that in that's

fine

it's

Helen in 1 5 8 Helen's no no it's not so

the Helen Michael ones are annoying

because you have to manually add a bunch

of extra stuff in for the laughs and so

on that takes a while so the initial

scenes are fine it's basically just FA

ok we did do a redraft because

originally was somebody like a subtler

than that but not by much

it was a bit like I'm going in full

season finale mode I did take the

opportunity to be like no no corpses

stumble into that no because it was a

lot of that background fighting between

with Trevor and Julia

so yeah you had a lot of those fight

scenes going on because I think you

meant you and your notes you're like if

you want to do the fight scenes you can

and then I thought no response I would

say actually here's a hidden interesting

challenge although we try to make it

like very similar to deenis and you know

it all holds together and feels quite

realistic normally the violence is fine

for me I don't get affected by horror I

don't get affected by the sound of

violence cuz it's hard to stay like oh

that sounds like a heartbreak when a

piece of celery has just gone mushed and

you've seen the salary go mush you know

I mean also you like kill so many people

some point why quad you care but I found

it quite difficult doing the sounds of

removed hunters and the fighting and so

on and I'm happy to like publicly say

what it is which is it felt when I was

editing it had a certain school shooter

evine not me making light of it at all I

was editing it and because we were going

for we haven't really done that kind of

combat you know the quite modern with

the gunfights is normally quite punchy

and nitrogen which isn't London honestly

it's not as loud as you think and where

is like with that it was the sound of

all of disturbs and then gunshots then

dissing people running a blah blah blah

it really hit the other school shooter

situation stiff suits a situation and I

found that really difficult which is

unusual from here like divine where like

writing it I don't think I realized

quite how much of them it would carry I

was like oh

obviously we'll do that content

warming's and things like

but for that one that's the first one

with me like really needs this yeah we

remember you really thing liebe for it

before it dropped unfunny yeah it's just

it's because it was muffled and so on it

just it worked in a way they didn't like

but um I don't think that's in the

script per se there that's like them

with guns you know they do have guns in

the like because for all I'm like oh

yeah it's not something I wanted to

elicit I did want it to drive home the

monstrousness of the hunter mentality

the like the fact that's like ya know

these are people who like attack

civilians because they have decided that

they are arbitrarily monstrous I was

gonna say though a bit because they had

to be distant as well I think they also

would limit you to things that make loud

noises right guns and balls and they're

just like beating the crap out of people

you're not going to hear that as a

distance noise right so you have to make

that kind of decision

it's well the other audio le states one

of the strengths that audio has is when

it's doing something that's like distant

and overheard audio works better because

people are you paying attention people

are normally listening if you're in your

car ninety percent of this has been lost

on you anyway if you're listening with

headphones though you can hear those two

things that you're not gonna hear when

you watch TV or film that's because how

many people watch TV and film with

headphones I recommend that you do it

and try it it's a completely different

experience because the sound is normally

done false around for everything that

you're watching these days it's just

that you're not getting the experience

cuz you're pumping out through stereo

speakers at the other end of the room or

your phone that I was finding very

tricky the panopticon was quite easy

with one caveat

so the panopticon is just it's a big

echo ii room there's some fun effects in

there there is whispering at the lowest

end that humans can discern via electric

equipment so maybe 50% of people won't

even be able to hear it like that they

can't pick it up that's nice so that's

in there it swells at certain points in

blah blah blah the footsteps they're a

nightmare they're walking along metal

grating that takes ages and the reason

being you can't just take the sound of

one person doing a footstep and then

reuse it because what that sounds like

it is hopping doesn't work so what's

that that took a bit of wire it's like

I've got to do this and I got to each

individual footstep he's right up there

with the bloody chains in the prison on

Elias I was like oh oh

Cheng's otherwise it's just weird there

are at least 80 separate chain cues per

tiny little scene because I couldn't

find a or do simple it was good to go so

I had to do it all manually I did all

right in the Train I feel I feel like

you put in the chase like I'm probably

not gonna put chains in there it might

be a bit much first steps are difficult

they're just time-consuming chains or

handcuffs listeners who are early access

patrons will know that we have problems

come early release so much so that he

was delayed by about 19 hours which is

the longest delay that we've ever had on

that I should sleep and I was like no

and then you like no sleep that added at

least five hours self-care we insist on

that but what were the challenges are

bring that all together into the

cohesive obviously some of that we've

talked about but was it just a perfect

storm situation that we ran into or so

he's a perfectionist perfect slum

situation

combined with the fact he's a big

perfectionist two things that I'm not a

bad thing Johnny's whose things that I'm

gonna share which I haven't before which

is number one I have a personal

preference which is my secret shame that

I don't like to talk about

I still master in audacity which is the

free open-source editing suite it's not

the best one out there but the reason I

like it is you know when people talk

about like driving an old car and you

can feel the engine in the in the wheel

and blah blah blah that's kind of how a

dusty feels for me because you can't do

anything in it but you have to go all

the way down to like core principles and

build it up yourself you can't just go

process this for me click a button and

it's done but what that means is it

teaches you a lot but it gives you

complete control so that's why I like it

it cannot handle that many layers 1/5 a

all in I had to start using certain

workarounds because it just crashes once

once you pass a measly 85 separate

layers of audio it just starts to break

which is nonsense

so the issue that I was running into

towards the end is that in the nicest

way I I had transcended beyond

day in editing equipment channel that

was you see I needed to Norrell

interface was really the only way to get

the nuance now just kept breaking so we

have to do that I have to do a few

workarounds and also audio density is a

problem in mp3 which is that you have to

remember that we have vocals okay cool

we then have music okay cool technically

within the music there are subtle layers

and alterations that get lost in the

compression and then on top of that we

have the sound scapes then on top of

that we have what we call incidental

effects so that is like stomping so

we're not dropping footsteps or whatever

which isn't your ambience and so on then

you got your transitions on top of that

blah blah blah basically the equipment

couldn't really handle it I have as good

a laptop as you can really get for

editing and even if I swap across to

other programs

Magnus occasionally breaks things but

part of that is because I am not leaning

into the strengths of them I'm not going

hey could you please process this I'm

going no I will process it myself kazoo

but it also takes so long yeah and time

that you didn't have because of the

production issues we'd had early down

the line as well so honestly 90% of the

delay was literally the equipment start

breaking and it's that simple so we had

to work around that and that was one

where it broke once and I was like no we

can still hit this it broke a second

time went there might be a minor delay

then there was a third time where it

lost like two hours work and I save I

once every ten minutes because it didn't

just lose two hours work is because it

actively corrupted save files that I had

and I lost three separate save files

that corrupted and I just like we had a

meeting on the Wednesday yeah and by

this point Magnus on five eight was

about four hours late and I'd been

running fire fighting on social media

too but I was people in for okay yeah

it's fine second and no Alex told me it

will be done by midnight yeah and then I

said okay can you guarantee that he was

a bit arming and her exact phrase was as

long as it doesn't break again we'll be

fine so I sent out the message and said

okay and we'll

building a little bit of leeway it

should be here by the morning didn't

quite hit them on because I did insist

or we all insisted that Alex actually

get some rest yeah fans were mostly

happy to say that we were practicing

self-care it was annoying for me because

we would have met despite everything we

would have met deadlines even if it had

broken once but we had a bit of a

catastrophic like software collapse yeah

which is why it's like it came out 11:00

a.m. the next morning which not ideal

and we do apologize for but sometimes

the equipment just can't quite take what

Johnny has written before everyone says

I brought this on myself I did attempt

to work in a different suite that suite

collapsed we're all very sad but also

it's like you know so we're doing 40

episodes generally in one year so that's

12 weeks off there's going to be

sometimes a bullets coming up to my

holiday I was like Alex you realize I'm

going on holiday highlighting this to

you you don't know why I like something

his wedding and then August it's a

perfect storm of events this isn't

happening in isolation

no we're recording the other let's all

each you

what would you say with your highlight

of actually working on my wallpaper all

on the finished product when I was

finished and swiftly in there

I enjoyed the big recording where we

were all shouting and violence occurring

I was fun I enjoyed the feeling when it

was done I mean actually having everyone

in the same room I think for that big

scene with six people having them all

over five all in the same room that was

a nice it feeling and listening real

istening to it on the way here actually

I don't real issen to anything ever

so we make

they literally have to it's weird to me

yeah yeah so I guess you know being

involved in such a big project it's

always nice when you deliver something

and it feels really good but to be

honest the real highlight for me was

hearing Martin disappear I mean we all

have money needed booting into oblivion

for a while okay like for me I have to

have a villain for why am I doing this

in my house I'm like it's always Alex

Martin get sick because Martin's great

especially when he doesn't deserve it

interesting so so from a psychological

point of view that you are placing a lot

of your own criticisms of yourself on to

Martin and externalizing Martin will

always be as someone that I've already

progressed beyond so it's okay for me to

think less of interesting how does that

make you feel wonderful I always like

the moments when I get the audio files

and you know you're coming to record

particularly maybe season 2 season 3 but

it's like just before you start going to

Martin you're like pathetic well I think

just and before we have to spend an

exorbitant amount on therapy bills I

think we will grow this episode to a

close thank you very much for join us

qnl what was your favorite part was it

midnight on the day of release actually

I will say that firefighting and keeping

people informed with not my favorite

task of just having to get running

updates from giving you on that

unfortunate jobs there yeah um but in

terms of what was my favorite actually

seeing the fan reaction for how much

effort had gone into it the

I was getting the running update of the

difficulties behind the episode actually

seeing the finished product and seeing

everybody's amazing reactions to a how

dense it was how much plot there was how

much emotion went into that episode and

I think it came out fantastically and it

also helped be a cap on well not so much

cap because 160 is the real cap but in

terms of an emotional high for going

into the lonely on 159 and then the end

of the world on 160 for everything that

had come today because we were getting a

few complaints about or not complained

per se but we were getting a few

comments about how the beginning of

season 4 it's a weird one because

actually if you look at the amount of

plot that happens and the amount of

stuff that happens in season 4 it's

actually almost late it's like twice as

dense as season 3 like if there's loads

of actual plot stuff happening all the

time it's just that because emotionally

it's dealing with loneliness and

isolation and like these very quite low

energy but intense emotions it feels

slow it feels yeah you know if you

actually like map out the plot points

it's just boom boom boom boom but yeah

how they come across yeah it comes but

then 115 to the end is a massive ramped

up in terms of feeling ok so yeah the

fan reaction was is basically our

highlight so thank you very much for

joining me thank you very much for

listening I hope you have found this

somewhat enlightening we will see the

debrief yeah into exactly what you do so

that I can hopefully make your lives

easier we are a coordinated company

honest about one episode not funny for

anyone listening or me so just stop okay

thank you everyone bye

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