##### [honey heist]

##### [RQG THEME]

#### ALEX

Hello and welcome to the holiday special of the *Rusty Quill Gaming* podcast! I am your host and GM Alex Newall and with me today I have:

#### HELEN

Helen Gould!

#### BRYN

Bryn Monroe.

#### BEN

Ben Meredith.

#### ALEX

Unfortunately Lydia can't be with us here today. Presumably she's off helping a guy in a big red suit and other denominational deities -- does, is Santa a deity? I don't know.

#### HELEN

...#### Nnno. #### #### BRYN

e is a saint.

#### ALEX

Is he a saint? He is, yes.

#### BEN

Saint Nicholas.

#### HELEN

Oh, yeah! I knew Santa is from, like, the Spanish-y sounding languages, maybe.

#### ALEX

Oh, there we go, then. #### So -- sh?

#### BRYN

I'm going to go with "ish."

#### #### BEN

e punched a pope in the face, I think.

#### HELEN

*Really!*

##### [Bryn cackles]

#### #### ALEX

kay, I'm abandoning the start of this episode. Do share.

#### BEN

Oh, I think -- and this is like, I've got very rough history, but basically I think they had one of the counselors, like the counselor of Nicea, and Saint Nicholas was there, and they were having an argument over the Arian heresy? Which isn't the Nazi "Aryan," and it's a guy called Arial Something. They got into a fistfight about theology and he punched him right in the face, and I think the person he punched went on to become pope, so Santa Claus punched the pope in the face.

#### #### ALEX

 CURSE YOU TO DELIVER PRESENTS FOR ETERNITY! For punching the pope. I've decided that's canon.

#### HELEN

Okay. We've all been there.

#### #### BEN

lex, the Catholic Church aren't actually magic.

##### [Laughter]

I hate to break it to you --

#### ALEX

I'm fairly certain that's where paladins came from, Ben. Right. Anyway, today we are going to be playing, you know, just to shake things up for our third-party things, a game by Grant #### Howitt! old the phone!

#### #### BRYN

 Grant Howitt?

#### ALEX

I know!

#### BEN

*Never* heard of him.

#### ALEX

So we've never really mentioned him before. He's a game designer, I think we've had him on as a guest, possibly. They all blend together.

#### #### BEN

aughter)_ All the different Grants.

##### [Helen cackles]

#### ALEX

All the different Grants that we've had! But we are going to be doing Honey Heist. Honey Heist is a game which is --

#### BRYN

Didn't Critical Role play that?

#### BEN

I was going to say, "you know, that one podcast that's much more popular than this one."

#### ALEX

Oh, there you go, there you go.

#### BRYN

"Much more successful..."

#### BEN

"With the voice actors!"

#### BRYN

Yeah.

#### ALEX

It's Honey Con, 2018. You are going to undertake the greatest heist the world has ever seen. Two things! One, you have a complex plan that requires precise timing. Two, you are a __god damn bear.__

So, I'm going to go around and we're going to be *rolling* for characters, no pre-genning here. Who'd like to go first?

#### BRYN

Oh, if I don't get to play a polar bear --

#### #### ALEX

ho's going first?

#### BRYN

-- I'm going to cry.

#### BEN

I'll go first. So I can steal polar bear out from under Bryn.

#### ALEX

Go for it.

#### BEN

Right. My descriptor is...

##### [DICE ROLLS]

I am "washed-up."

#### HELEN

Ooh.

#### BEN

I am a washed-up...

##### [DICE ROLLS]

Aww! I missed it -- I am a washed-up panda.

##### [Bryn cackles]

#### BEN

My role is...

##### [DICE ROLLS]

I am the face. So I am a washed-up panda face. And... are we rolling for hats?

#### ALEX

Of course you're rolling for hats! What do you think we are, philistines?

#### BEN

Give me a D8, cos this is apparently an aberration to the system.

#### HELEN

Ooh.

##### [Dice rolls]

#### BEN

Wearing a... cowboy hat.

#### ALEX

Aw, yeah!

#### HELEN

Oh, fantastic.

#### BEN

I am a washed-up panda face wearing a cowboy hat. I would like to think that I also have a cigar, because of that guy from the eighties.

#### ALEX



#### BRYN

I assumed when I read "roll 3D6" that you roll them all *simultaneously* and got to then assign a die to each of the categories.

#### BEN

I like to live by the number.

#### ALEX

We're going to go one at a time --

#### BRYN

Okay.



-------

##### [not far to bermuda]

##### [RQG THEME]

#### SASHA

Hi and welcome to Rusty Quill Gaming! I'm Sasha Sienna, and with me today are:

#### LOWRI

Lowri Davies.

#### LYDIA

Lydia Nicholas.

#### HELEN

And Helen Gould.

#### SASHA

And today we're playing a game called Not Far to Bermuda, from MacGuffin and Company. Just for those of you who don't know, I am Sasha Sienna and I'll be the GM, and I also play Georgie on *The Magnus Archives.* Lowri, do you want to introduce yourself?

#### LOWRI

Yes, thank you! I am Lowri Davies, and I edit *Gaming* and I am also the producer for *Gaming* and *Stellar Firma.*

####






---

Of That Colossal Wreck – Behind The Scenes Transcript

#### HELEN GOULD

Hello and welcome to the behind-the-scenes episode of *Of That Colossal Wreck.* _(laughs)_.

#### JONATHAN SIMS

Is that what we're going with for the title?

#### HELEN GOULD

That is what we're going with, Jonny. Yeah. Yeah.

#### SASHA SIENNA

That's why we spelled it with so many E's _(laughs)_.

#### HELEN GOULD

Anywho, my name is Helen and I'm joined today by:

#### JONATHAN SIMS

Hi, I'm Jonathan Sims, one of the co-writers for *Of That Colossal Wreck.*

#### KATIE SEATON

Hi, Katie Seaton. She/her, I'm sound designer/composer.

#### MAXAMILLIAN JOHN

Hi, I'm Maxamilian John, the director of *Of That Colossal Wreck.*

#### SASHA SIENNA

And I'm Sasha Sienna, the other writer *Of That Colossal Wreck.*

#### HELEN GOULD

Wonderful. Thanks so much for coming on the show, sharing your time, doing this episode with us.

Alright, let's dive right in and get started with a fairly general question. What was it like for you all, creating a sci-fi horror audio drama?

#### SASHA SIENNA

Yeah, pretty good.

All
_(laughs)_

#### HELEN GOULD

Sasha _(laughs)_.

#### MAXAMILLIAN JOHN

Yeah, it was great. Sasha is totally right.

#### SASHA SIENNA

Thank you, Max.

#### MAXAMILLIAN JOHN

I came into it sort of partway through the writing process, so I already knew what it was gonna be and I had some first drafts sent to me and I loved it immediately. The atmosphere of it came through instantly, and that's sort of what attracted me to the whole project. Yeah, it was, do you know what? Oh, I don't wanna jump a gun on other questions, but...

#### HELEN GOULD

No, go for it.

#### MAXAMILLIAN JOHN

It was an easier process than I expected. Oh yeah. Because I got to work with people who are so good at what they did that I could more or less just forget about all of them, _(laughs)_ if you know what I mean. There was no need to go too deep on say the characters or the sound design because I knew that was all gonna be taken care of. So I had the easiest job in the world. Right. I got to receive the scripts, they were great. Send 'em on to the actors. All the actors did their job. They were fantastic. I pretty much just sat there, if I'm honest, _(laughs)_ and then asked to give sound design direction. But Katie's fantastic. So I had a few ideas at the beginning and then I have, again, just sat there and listened to all the edits coming back in. So yeah, it was the best and easiest job of my life.

#### HELEN GOULD

Aw, that's nice. That's glowing praise. Katie, how was it for you?

#### KATIE SEATON

This is my first time doing sci-fi, actually. So I haven't got a lot to compare it to, but it's been really fun. For me, although the horror part is definitely a big identifier, I tend to always come at things from a psychological/emotional angle. So I think all the exploring the themes about, you know, what is it to be human? All the existential stuff was more at the top of my focus in terms of my approach than the horror, per se. And then every now and then I'd come to a gruesome bit -- I go, oh yeah, okay, now I get to make hideous noises as well. _(laughs)_

#### HELEN GOULD

_(laughs)_.

#### KATIE SEATON

And the nice thing about sci-fi sound design and music is that because you are creating a lot from scratch, you get this blank canvas from which you get to start to draw out the atmosphere and the characters in the very sonic qualities that you are creating and the space that you are putting people in. And a certain amount of it can just come from your imagination. And so you can allow that to reflect the mood and the themes from the get-go and then draw on that for music as well, which is what I love to do. And it's a very organic process. So I enjoyed that.

And the scripts also were very rich in interesting detail about what this place looked like and what it might feel like to be there. So that was quite easy, you know, I had a good blueprint as well. So yeah, it's been a lot of work, it's been intensive, but at no point have I ever felt like I'm working in a vacuum or like I didn't know what to do next. So yeah, it's been positive too.

#### HELEN GOULD

Lovely. While we're on that topic, so I've only listened to the first two episodes, but we're gonna spoil the whole thing _(laughs)_. That's totally fine. There's a lot of percussion in like, the transitional bits of music between scenes. Like there's sort of a "bing bing bong" and a _(laughs)_ and like a a a th kind of noise. Yeah. It's just an interesting -- and, like, weird tinkling sounds -- and I was wondering whether that was a deliberate choice that you made.

#### MAXAMILLIAN JOHN

Can I?

#### HELEN GOULD

Max? Please do chime in. No, go for it.

#### MAXAMILLIAN JOHN

I remember this, this was the first conversation I had with Elizabeth Moffatt about it. When we were first talking about the show and then she wanted to know what my thoughts were about what we should do with the sound design. And I had one idea, _(laughs)_, I had this one idea that what I wanted was the mechanics of the space station or the clunky bits to go through into the music for the sound effects of her music to kind of blend together. Yeah.

And I thought, for all the world, she's not gonna go for it. So I pitched it high, thinking "she'll talk me back, she'll talk me back to something more reasonable, something that's less work for a sound designer." And she just said, "Yeah, that sounds great. Yeah."

#### HELEN GOULD

Yeah. You don't know Liz _(laughs)_. Yeah.

#### JONATHAN SIMS

Liz will always rise to a challenge.

#### KATIE SEATON

_(laughs)_. Yeah. Also, that's literally my jam. I mean, she knew I was on it too.

#### MAXAMILLIAN JOHN

I think that's why. Yeah. Because she knew that Katie was gonna come in and nail it and I thought I was asking for something ridiculously ambitious, which I think it is. I think, Katie, for anybody else that is really ambitious. But yeah, that was the single idea I had and it turns out everyone was already on that page already. That's great.

#### KATIE SEATON

Great. Yeah. I said this in another place. If any of those people are listening, they're getting to know that I'm copying myself here. Um, _(laughs)_. But I really like the space in between sound and music and at what level the consciousness sits in between the two and what you can do with that in terms of sort of, somebody said "triangulating" where the narrative is drawing you to. It always seems to me like when the music rises at sand, it's like one of those ghosts that comes outta the ground and sort of manifests, you know, _(laughs)_ from people's feelings.

#### JONATHAN SIMS

Which is something that works so well in sci-fi as well, which is already about that overlap between character psychology and technology. And I think it really works for the genre as well.

#### SASHA SIENNA

Mm. Yeah. I think with sci-fi horror, particularly because this is a very conceptual sci-fi as well, it's very existential and...

#### JONATHAN SIMS

The word you're looking for is pretentious.

##### [Laughter]

#### SASHA SIENNA

Intellectual! _(laughs)_ Yeah. Because it's a very conceptual sci-fi in its idea. I think for both myself and Jonny, we think that sci-fi is best when it feels grounded. Mm. And also because this was a horror, it really does need to feel visceral and it needs to feel physical. Mm. And I think that a danger with sci-fi, particularly sci-fi set in a space station, in the oblivion of space, it can feel weightless, it can feel like you're in that weightless well space. And it was really important that this particular show didn't feel like that, which is why it was so great to work with Rusty Quill and the people that we've got on the team. Because one thing that I think you always get from a Rusty Quill show is incredibly physical sound design. And it has meant that the space station feels incredibly atmospheric and incredibly real and visceral, which is just really important for this kind of sci-fi show. Yeah.

#### JONATHAN SIMS

It's a bit of a cliche, but it's like, oh yeah, the space station is really the seventh character.

#### KATIE SEATON

Someone had to say it!

#### SASHA SIENNA

_(laughs)_.

#### HELEN GOULD

Yeah. There was a very particular sound to all the horrible slime that they kept finding. _(laughs)_

#### JONATHAN SIMS

Ah, slime.

#### MAXAMILLIAN JOHN

Well on that point, if the space station is the seventh character, the Whistlers are the eighth. Right.

#### HELEN GOULD

Oh, Alright

#### MAXAMILLIAN JOHN

Then. And Katie's work with the Whistlers was amazing. Mm-Hmm.

#### KATIE SEATON

Yeah. But about our character number eight to 7,000 really, aren't they _(laughs)_? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's really interesting what you say about sci-fi, though. I always thought of it up until now as being a way of looking at what people are like by putting a different filter on them.

#### SASHA SIENNA

Oh, I think it is that as well. Yeah. I was just,

#### KATIE SEATON

'cause now I think of it almost in a more first-person way than I had been before. That makes sense. A little bit more up close and looking at the grains of the personality. And it's also interesting what you say about this organic sounds. So just come back to stand for a sec, because the space station, I really wanted not to create with a synth so clearly, like I was sort of somehow telepathically absorbing _(laughs)_ your energy there. So I, I did actually create it all with organic sound that I recorded, like flexing perspex and I've got a big lino roll, you know, like the enormous bug rolls that you wrap carpet

#### SASHA SIENNA

Round. Oh yeah, yeah.

#### KATIE SEATON

One of them like, it's huge. And I was sort of breathing down it to find the resonant frequency, which I then sang. And recorded that. And that made a surprisingly awesome noise. So that became that sort of thrumming that you hear, um, quite a lot of the way through.

#### MAXAMILLIAN JOHN

Wow, that's amazing.

#### JONATHAN SIMS

I never thought I'd say it, but it wasn't the right time for a synth.

#### KATIE SEATON

_(laughs)_ _(laughs)_. There are electronic elements just so that we don't sound completely like I'm flexing perspec, but it's, yeah. I wanted to be grounded in organic sound, so yeah. There you go. Visceral.

#### HELEN GOULD

Speaking of viscera, the Whistlers _(laughs)_, tell me more about them. Tell me about the monster design in audio-only formats. How did that go? Where did the idea for the Whistlers come from as well?

#### SASHA SIENNA

Well, I think when we were writing the scripts, Jonny and I very much wanted to create something that was A) very, very alien and B) very much not a person.

Mm-Hmm.

Because we only have seven episodes and I know that given a chance, both Jonny and I will absolutely complicate a situation and humanize our villains. _(laughs)_ We really wanted to make sure that we didn't have a chance to do that. So the two things we wanted to do were make them terrifying, predatory and animalistic and be alien so that it was very clear that these were monsters. And honestly we hadn't thought that much about the specifics of the sound until we were in our first meeting with Max, and then Max and Elizabeth were like, so what do they sound like _(laughs)_? And I think we both came up with exactly the same thing off the cuff.

#### JONATHAN SIMS

Yeah. So I think we were both drawing very much from, I think the Xenomorph alien is obviously the easy pull for this sort of sci-fi horror, but it is also to hand for a reason because it is such an effective creature in terms of: this is not something that you recognize. I mean now it obviously is, but it is one that works primarily in the visual medium. The monsters in Attack the block are also really good in this way that they are so visual with the way that their mouths work. So trying to think of that in terms of audio and be like, okay, so here's, here's how you make something look alien. How do you make something sound alien? And so like whistles and clicks and the sound of their movement was, was very important to us. And like, I'll be honest, it was one of those writing bits where you very much write it down and then cast it towards the director and sound designer and uh, be like, good luck _(laughs)_,

#### MAXAMILLIAN JOHN

We did have the idea that we wanted to identify every time they whistled in the script. Right. What were they actually communicating? I remember us talking about that Katie. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> trying to work out for, for every instance what is being said and can we make the whistles sort of a form of communication with the listener as well?

#### KATIE SEATON

Mm-Hmm. Yes, I remember saying that. And at the time going, yeah, yeah, I can do that _(laughs)_ and think to do it every time there was a new whistle, like, oh crap. I, going back to what, um, I think Sasha was saying it's really funny to me that even though you went to such lengths to have an unambiguous enemy, _(laughs)_, you still had Luna go off to try and make friends with them.

#### MAXAMILLIAN JOHN

_(laughs)_, I was gonna say.

#### JONATHAN SIMS

Yeah. Oh yeah. No, it was very important to us that they were inhuman but not unintelligent. It's the old Star Trek, you know, it's life but not as we know it, but in a horror context rather than a like exploration sort of context.

#### SASHA SIENNA

I think as well, because so many really great sci-fi works that I love, like a real theme of it is encountering these other forms of life and how they deal with that to me is either assuming that those forms of life are a threat or lesser or they are actually exploring whether there is a common link here. And my favorites tend to be the ones that explore whether there's a common link there. And we wanted very much to kind of not shut that down _(laughs)_, but we don't have time to tell that story and the story that we're actually telling. So we wanted to make it clear that this was not a kind of life form where you're gonna be able to find common ground, but we also didn't want to create our characters such that they would just immediately go to fight.

#### JONATHAN SIMS

Yeah. We wanted it to be clear that like the whistlers see humans not as people in the same way. Like that there is, there is this sort of two way, like the whistlers can't really comprehend humans as anything other than like food essentially, or like animals in the same way that our characters can't easily comprehend the whistlers as anything other than this, this threat.

#### MAXAMILLIAN JOHN

Yeah. You talk about sort of shutting down that interpretation or, or that avenue Sasha, but I feel like you guys did such a good job of keeping everything in play at the same time. As soon as you know, we're able to I guess project an element of society onto the aliens, it becomes impossible not to humanize 'em to a certain extent to think of them as being people. And then when you do that to Luna their potential friends Right. And to Mira they are potentially enemy combatants and they're both making the same fundamental mistake and the the real situation is something in between is that, that to even think of them as human is wrong, but it's, I like that for them it is unavoidable because empathy is kind of at the core of people and especially these characters who have so few other people to empathize with, that they're kind of projecting just for the sake of having more community around them, even if it is uh, antagonistic loneliness.

#### JONATHAN SIMS

Absolutely.

#### MAXAMILLIAN JOHN

So, I dunno, I think you guys did such a good job of keeping everything on the table. Oh,

#### SASHA SIENNA

Thank you _(laughs)_.

#### HELEN GOULD

Lovely. Thank you all for that. Since we've started talking a bit about the characters and their reactions to the Whistlers, do any of you have a favorite character or one that you relate to more than the others?

#### JONATHAN SIMS

I mean, I really enjoyed writing Anya because I love an angry messed up sort of veteran character who's gone a bit weird.

#### KATIE SEATON

Yeah. Eccentric and poignant is a wonderful combination. _(laughs)_

#### SASHA SIENNA

I found myself not so much, it's not so much that I'd like relate to specific characters as that I would really like the, like the dichotomy between two characters. I like the contrast between Mira and Levi and in a way they're both kind of the leaders or intended to be leaders, but in such different ways. And then as I was writing it as well, I found that I really liked the kind of the dichotomy between, or the juxtaposition between Mira and Luna. I thought that those two really played well together in that they're very, very different people, but I think that they have quite a similar core and that they're going in the same direction.

#### MAXAMILLIAN JOHN

Yeah. Levi and Mira are such parent characters threatening to turn the car around _(laughs)_ at any point, you know, and they, I think because of of that fact and because they both have such clear sort of ideological standpoints that are really based in their emotional core. For that reason, I really empathize with Zach just stuck in the middle of it. _(laughs)_.

#### SASHA SIENNA

Oh Yeah. I do love Zach, actually. Just

#### MAXAMILLIAN JOHN

Trying to get people to stop fighting just, just everyone calm down and try and have a, a normal conversation.

#### JONATHAN SIMS

Yeah. And Euan is so good at it. Yeah, absolutely. Nails it.

#### MAXAMILLIAN JOHN

Yeah man, he's fantastic.

#### KATIE SEATON

My favorite bit was when he was getting really irritated with Mira _(laughs)_. I just, I felt it _(laughs)_, I was there with him. _(laughs)_.

#### HELEN GOULD

Yeah, definitely big shout out to all the actors.

#### MAXAMILLIAN JOHN

I mean all the characters are so warm in their own ways. Even Mira's spikiness clearly comes from expecting to be in a position where everything is under control. Mm-Hmm. And nothing is under control and she's internally panicking, but trying desperately not to look like she's panicking and it all makes everything much worse. Yeah. There's so much vulnerability on show with all of them.

#### JONATHAN SIMS

I think we do tend to write quite warm characters in a lot of ways. I think, I think both of us struggle to not see the best in the characters we're writing a lot of the time.

#### SASHA SIENNA

Yeah. I think that's true. I think that we like to see our characters as people, like full people. And so I think that we tend to write with an eye to both where their warmth and humanity are, but also where their vulnerabilities are. So I think, I think all the characters are warm, but I think they're also all very vulnerable in their own way

#### MAXAMILLIAN JOHN

Yeah. And that's always the hook for the actors, right. Seeing the lines on the page and thinking, well in what way does this come from a deep insecurity? Because it always does with all the best writing and once they get their teeth into that, everything just flows. And I think you can really hear that in their performances together.

#### HELEN GOULD

Yeah. I'm with you on that. Like what makes often, what makes a character engaging is their vulnerabilities or their flaws. If done well. A character that refuses to have flaws is also very interesting as well.

#### MAXAMILLIAN JOHN

Yeah. Because that is such a flaw that's a refusal to be human.

#### HELEN GOULD

So it sounds like you all had like a really positive and fairly easy experience, but I would like to know, was there anything that you found challenging about making the show? Anything that was like difficult to imagine or to create?

#### SASHA SIENNA

I actually found the short length really challenging. I think that it was very ambitious project and I don't think that either Jonny or I had ever written something that had to be quite this tight before. So by the time we actually had to put the scripts in, I I could not stop fussing with them. I could not stop fiddling with them. And by the time we had to put them in, I was like, I, oh, I just, I think we've dropped a couple plates, like Max was saying, like, you know, the, we were trying to get the balance right and I was, I think that we could have shifted the balance a little more. And I, I don't normally listen to stuff that I've written because I hate doing so _(laughs)_. But, um, I, I did listen to these two episodes, uh, that were already out while we're recording this so that we could record this. And I'm so glad that I did actually, because I think that the finished product is, is really, really good. I think that everybody has done an incredible job of, of putting it together and, um, yeah, I think it was tricky, but it was, it was a fulfilling challenge. And also I think I learned a lot from the limitations.

#### JONATHAN SIMS

For me, I think my challenge was trying to keep it grounded because it's such a conceptual work in a lot of ways. You know, this is our sort of sixties sci-fi writer short story. You use a quote from a classical poet as the title _(laughs)_. And so like the, the very first drafts I think had a lot of quite arch, quite sort of sweeping stuff. So like reigning that down and turning it into a, like something grounded in the characters I think was something that took a little bit of work.

#### MAXAMILLIAN JOHN

I mean for me it's, uh, maybe not, not a great answer, but you know, when you are, when you're directing anything like this, you're always trying to anticipate the problems that are gonna be coming up so you can head them off. The recording sessions were so smooth and they went so fast. I became deeply, deeply paranoid _(laughs)_ that we were missing something, you know, April can testify to that. I was like pulling her aside and like, is this okay? Like, is this actually okay? Because I was sure like, we must be missing something, you know, when everything goes right and you're like, yeah, this is an ambush. I've been here before, life has taken me like this before. But yeah, we were just, we were just rattling through it. The actors were clicking so neatly and fast that, that I thought we're gonna get to the end and realize there's been an awful mistake. We've missed out half of a script. Something has not gone right. Um, so I think if there was any challenging bit it was my, uh, yeah, my refusal to actually, you know, receive good news and to _(laughs)_ just be a little bit more laid back.

#### HELEN GOULD

I think a lot of us could relate to that. _(laughs)_, what about you Katie?

#### KATIE SEATON

I'm gonna say the challenges were technical for me. Uh, my first instinct was to say I need a new computer, _(laughs)_ Which is probably the biggest challenge I've been facing. But I don't think there was any point where artistically I thought, I dunno what I'm supposed to do here. That wasn't a thing. But there were a few times when, you know, there's been some mixing challenges, the constant whistler noise sometimes when it's present just gobbles up an awful lot of the attention of the ears. I've spent quite a lot of time just fiddling around trying to make that work. Like make making them sound sufficiently present to be a threat, but not so present that it oblates everything else or gives everybody tinnitus. So that, that's been a thing. And yeah, that's probably the main thing actually has been the mixing challenges. It's been quite hard work.

#### HELEN GOULD

I do love the way you talk about audio, Katie, like the idea of, um, _(laughs)_, what - I've literally forgotten exactly what words you used, but the idea of the whistlers being two present In an audio mix. Love that.

#### JONATHAN SIMS

I mean, you only have so much ear,

#### KATIE SEATON

Right?

#### HELEN GOULD

_(laughs)_. It's true. The ear is a finite resource.

#### KATIE SEATON

That's quite a good way to put it. Yeah. _(laughs)_ like a sort of a vessel that you can fill and when you have filled the ear vessel _(laughs)_, You need to take Something outta it. You can put something else into it. _(laughs)_.

#### HELEN GOULD

So we've talked about the challenges and what you found difficult. Do any of you have a favorite part of sort of the final product, the episodes that are now out?

#### SASHA SIENNA

Yeah, I think because it was a really short series, the limitations mean that it's really tight. Mm-Hmm.
<affirmative> _(laughs)_. Like, I think that the thing that I found the most challenging is
probably actually my favorite thing about listening to it. But also I think that Max, what you
were saying with the characters all being really warm, I think that the actors and the performances all
have such a warm quality to them. Yeah. And there's also, the space station is so atmospheric in the way
that it sounds, it feels so present and so big and so close and so real. It's really lovely. Really
wonderful.

#### JONATHAN SIMS

I like how the monsters sound.

All
_(laughs)_ _(laughs)_.

#### KATIE SEATON

Yeah. The movement of them was quite complex. I cracked my knuckles a lot in front of microphones _(laughs)_. Layered, like there, I think there were about 20 layers because I looked at the gait of a horse -- 'cause she said it was a four-legged creature, so how four-legged creatures walk. And I tried to make them kind of crackle up and down with each leg movement. And then I had to simplify it because that was a bit convoluted, but I was doing lots of things with details. Like I was getting, um, TLS and pinging the specky bits to try and get those little sort of pokes in the ear, you know, the sit on top and stuff like that. Um, so yeah, there's a lot of texture in that. So it was fun. It was fun to do. And the Whistlers themselves were me singing, actually.

#### MAXAMILLIAN JOHN

No way!

#### KATIE SEATON

Yeah.

#### SASHA SIENNA

Yeah. I thought they sounded very musical, very harmonic, I suppose. 'cause they're harmonizing, but yeah, they're really good.

#### KATIE SEATON

Yeah. Again, that was quite a hard balance because they needed to be musical enough that there was a sense that there was some language happening between them. And they needed to sort of have that quality that it is actually an animal. It's not a electronic sound, but they need to be weird enough as well to be alien. So I found that I sung a really, really high note and pulled it into a, a digital sync called Omnisphere, where you can do loads of, I'm trying to think of the technical word [beep]ing stuff up. _(laughs)_, it's not coming to - modulation. That's it. Um, _(laughs)_. So yeah, I, I kind of layered various instances of it on top of each other and like detune them slightly. This particular program has got a thing it does called inner space, I think, where you can take different sounds and you sort of combine them with your original sound to make something completely different. So there was one called like, I think it was like hyper hairbrush or something, I don't know. But you know, I, I fussed with that for ages _(laughs)_. Uh, yeah. That was how I did it. So always a tight road walking between sort of it feeling like it's coming from creature, not a computer. Um, but it feeling weird enough as well. Scary enough.

#### MAXAMILLIAN JOHN

That's incredible. _(laughs)_, I'm so impressed. I think for me having an overview of this whole thing and because I'm just an old softie in the end. What I really love about final episodes is being able to hear all the work that each individual person has put in to this. Being able to hear all the sound design and every actor, you know, I had a conversation with them beforehand about their character, about what they thought and trying to, you know, develop their approach to it. And then with the actors, we had a, a big group chat before we even started and they put all of them so much thought into each of their characters. They turned up with ideas, lots and lots of ideas about their backstory and, and who these people were. And you know, what they were hiding either from each other or all of themselves. It was incredible. And I think being able to listen to the episodes and hear all of that represented in the final product really makes me very proud. That's the best part of all of this always is, uh, going to work with lots and lots of talented people.

#### KATIE SEATON

Yeah, it's lovely, isn't it? Because I think in particular with audio drama, like it is truly collaborative. Like there are sort of pillars, you know, the, the writing, the acting and the post-production artist book and any one of which not there, it would, it would fall down, you know? It is, yeah. There's, it cannot be done in isolation. Any bit of it that, that's, that's what makes it rich and stuff.

#### JONATHAN SIMS

And from the writing point of view, it's always so rewarding to see what you've put on a page just coming to life.

#### SASHA SIENNA

Yeah. It's one of my favorite things about writing scripts, is that it's a collaborative form of writing. Yeah. Basically I just get to do all the bits that I like and then go all, everybody just sort this out. _(laughs)_, make it good. Cheers.

#### HELEN GOULD

_(laughs)_ sort this out and make it good.

#### SASHA SIENNA

No, but it's genuinely, it feels so special to have everybody contributing and I think it really
does make the finished products more than the sum of its parts.

#### HELEN GOULD

Oh, you are all so wholesome. _(laughs)_. Oh, I've missed this. Yeah.

#### KATIE SEATON

Can I say my favorite bit? Oh

#### HELEN GOULD

Yes. I

#### KATIE SEATON

Didn't realize you, I just went off on a long ramble about Whistlers, didn't I? Instead

#### HELEN GOULD

_(laughs)_ _(laughs)_.

#### KATIE SEATON

I like the cold unconcern of the space station and how it's listening to them all the time. I like how it
opens with that. And then the spell is broken and it's kind of watching and listening and it
kind of doesn't give a shit as far as I can tell. That motif comes back again and again, my favorite
time is at the opening of episode six when we hear the end of episode five. But from within the bridge, I
have to say, I extended the flashback back a little bit 'cause I wanted a little bit more of that. I really
wanted to just be sitting there, just really indifferent to the whole thing and hear the
drama approaching. But hear the bridge first, especially after the fossilized recording that we hear
before that as well.

So that's my favorite bit. But then it ends, the whole series ends with that motif as well. And it's the last thing we hear too. And you get sort of the impression that people may come and go and the Space
Station doesn't give a shit and there's, I dunno, there's something about that which I just really
enjoy. And I also like how it emerges over, like, I wrote the music to sound a little bit like a cradle or
possibly a pendulum of death _(laughs)_. And almost like these are babies coming outta
their cots _(laughs)_, to make it even more vulnerable sounding.

#### JONATHAN SIMS

_(laughs)_. Yeah. I think it is so important in sci-fi especially to get that sense of that sense of coldness
from the universe. That sense of -- and because the Space Station is the universe from the point of
view of this series, like, I think you did a fantastic job

#### HELEN GOULD

_(laughs)_, but you got pendulum of death?

#### KATIE SEATON

Yeah. My pendulum of death. _(laughs)_

#### JONATHAN SIMS

_(laughs)_. Yeah. Helen, you know, the pendulum of Death.

#### KATIE SEATON

_(laughs)_, I've got pendulum of death. This is where you, I've been absorbed in this intensely for six or
seven weeks and nobody else knows. My little shorthand do they _(laughs)_ and I've forgotten this
_(laughs)_.

#### HELEN GOULD

No, I love it

#### KATIE SEATON

Yeah. It's in the theme. There's a kind of modulated piano, which has the backwards and
forwards tick almost, which is the same tune as the whistlers tune. But I deliberately put it at 60
beats per minute. So it was actually like a second hand -- counting the seconds to the death of time or
whatever. Um, 'cause I wanted to have that shining but also cold feeling. So that's
my pendulum of death.

#### HELEN GOULD

Katie, you're so clever.

#### KATIE SEATON

I thank you. Um, I get yes, I get, I get

#### HELEN GOULD

Yes. Accept The compliment. Yes.

#### KATIE SEATON

Thank you. Thank you. I I I was going overthinker I think.

#### HELEN GOULD

_(laughs)_ _(laughs)_. Alright, we're coming up to the end of the episode. So I've got one quick fun question
to end on and that question is, would you leave or stay on the Ozymandias?

#### JONATHAN SIMS

I mean, I'm a bit of a homebody so I'm probably hanging around. I'm not
launching myself out into the great unknown. No, thank you. _(laughs)_.

#### HELEN GOULD

_(laughs)_.

#### SASHA SIENNA

I like to think I would leave, but I really don't think that I would. I think that the allure of
creating a home with people that I love would be too much. But I really like to think that I would go.

#### MAXAMILLIAN JOHN

Yeah. I would stay as well. Oh no.

#### JONATHAN SIMS

Oh no.

#### SASHA SIENNA

This is terrible.

#### MAXAMILLIAN JOHN

There's not one of between us, I dunno.

#### JONATHAN SIMS

We're all cowards!

#### KATIE SEATON

_(laughs)_. Yeah, I think it's, I dunno, we're all creative, right? I'm also thinking as long as there's a
piano, I probably _(laughs)_.

#### MAXAMILLIAN JOHN

Right.

#### JONATHAN SIMS

To be fair, you're asking four people who are all working from home and

#### HELEN GOULD

_(laughs)_. Yeah.

#### SASHA SIENNA

If we've got a computer, it's fine. _(laughs)_.

#### JONATHAN SIMS

We basically live in a handful of rooms anyway.

#### KATIE SEATON

I think if everybody else left I probably would go, though. I'm not that much of an introvert.

#### HELEN GOULD

Yeah. I think I'm the same. I think I would want to be with the people I know and my friends. So I'll just
be like, wherever you go, I'll just tack along. We'll make it work.

#### SASHA SIENNA

I think there's the bit where they come to the garden and there's the graves of the people who've been
before. And I actually think that that's a really beautiful little story that they've had. Yeah. The people
that we never see where they have made a life for themselves. They've made a little community
and it didn't last, but it was beautiful while it was there. And that's probably what I would hope for.

#### HELEN GOULD

Well, on that note, _(laughs)_, thank you all of you for talking about the process of making this series. And
thank you for like sharing your thoughts and being so insightful. As always. Before we finish, is there
anything you would like to plug that people should know about?

#### JONATHAN SIMS

So if you are interested in more writing from myself and Sasha, we do tabletop roleplaying games as
MacGuffin and Company. So if you go to MacGuffinandcompany.com, you can find some of our work
there. And personally my stuff, you can find it at jonathan-sims.com.

#### SASHA SIENNA

You can find my stuff at sashasienna.com. I'll plug again MacGuffin and Company because I've been
told that I'm allowed. So check out MacGuffin and company at macguffinandcompany.com. _(laughs)_.
Um, am I allowed to plug stuff I'm doing with other podcasts? I won't. It's enough. That's enough.
You can find me at sashasienna.com _(laughs)_. And like Jonny said, you can find McGuffin and Company
macguffinandcompany.com.

#### HELEN GOULD

How about you, Max?

#### MAXAMILLIAN JOHN

I have nothing to plug and I cannot be found _(laughs)_, But

#### SASHA SIENNA

Oh, that's the dream.

#### MAXAMILLIAN JOHN

Do you know what? I'm really looking forward to hearing the rest of the Neon Inkwell shows and I think
listeners should also watch out for those because I don't know much about them, but I'm sure they're
gonna be great. _(laughs)_.

#### HELEN GOULD

Katie, how about you?

#### KATIE SEATON

Oh, I'm sound Designing, composing and audio drive all over the place these days. So I dunno, Google
me or something. Um, _(laughs)_. I'm gonna try and get back onto social media a
bit actually. 'cause I am actually doing my own project with some of my homies, which will probably, I
should plug it here because April actually was the one who gave us the name about three years ago, but
it's really, really hard to say. So I'm gonna try and say it right. First time The Infinite instrumentalist will
be the name that it goes out on when we finally start building the website and getting out
there. So you can look out for that. I guess

#### JONATHAN SIMS

I have such respect for those plugs. I have nothing to plug and I cannot be found and I don't know,
Google me.

All
_(laughs)_

#### SASHA SIENNA

I feel like a real chump now. <laugh
#### >

All
_(laughs)_.

#### HELEN GOULD

So thank you all for listening. Next up on the neon inkwell feed, you can find inexplicables from Tom
Critch and Alexander j Newall -- You may have heard of him -- directed by Maddy Searle and Lead script
edited by me. Very excited for that to be heard by all of you. And then after that we have the pit
Below Paradise coming in March from J Evelyn Gaskell and directed by How it Ends Duo Micah Rodriguez
and Stephanie Resendes. And we'll catch you later.
